Intercooler performance

[shortyb]

Hope all the fear did a number on market value and you got it for a good deal. Winner winner.

 

[Chogokin]

I paid $400 for the IC/brackets/hoses...and another $70 for new SAI/horn brackets, nuts, nutserts, nutsert tool, plastic caps directly from Neuspeed. Friend of mine has the same IC on his IS20 wagon. I got the template to trim the scoops from him. Install was straight forward. I like where Neuspeed puts the temp sensor. Only had to drill two holes for the nutserts. No drama mama install.

 

[GTI_Owner]

data in the real world will never ever be clean like a science experiment and always requires some judgement and estimates.

I think my own tests, to me at least, indicates that what is widely recognized as one of the best intercoolers (APR) is not profoundly better on my 480whp setup than the cheaper and easier to install and widely regarded as the worst (Neuspeed Is38 FMIC). APR is a small bit better but for the extra cost and extra install swearing I personally don't think the APR is worth it. On a more typical 300-350whp car the difference between these two intercoolers would likely be even smaller

Seeing as how the APR IC has about 130% greater frontal area, and 70% greater volume than the NS, and heat transfer area is fundamental to IC heat transfer, it would be very helpful to have data logs.

Knock resistant fuel (less susceptible to higher IAT) and differences in turbo discharge pressure may be driving the results closer and offsetting IC differences.

 

[BTD37]

Alright, I finally got my AMS intercooler installed. I ultimately just decided to install it myself after watching DAP's video multiple times and being quoted some high numbers. Fitment was spot on. Overall, I gotta say that the install was not that bad compared to what I was expecting. Yes it sucked doing and took me a good 7-8 hours or so but it was more time consuming then difficult. The yellow tabs were a pain and took a good portion of time just trying to unclip. I would almost suggest just buying an extra pair online and cutting the original ones out. Also, the upper bolts that hold the crash bar were a pain to reach do to the headlights being in the way. I tried my best not to monkey with the headlights but I ultimately had to loosen them up to reach the bolts. Those 2 things were the biggest time consumers plus (you can grill me all you want) trying to figure out how to get the front end up on jack stands. Had to jack from the front of the car by the control arms to get each side up. Didn't have room to jack from the pinch weld and slide the jack stand in. Also tried the jacking from the rear method which worked for 1 side but couldn't do the other. May sound silly but I'll be honest, it took me a bit.

In terms of the intercooler's performance, it seems to be working really well. I haven't had a lot of time behind the wheel yet beside from 2 little drives but the car definitely maintains its power now, especially on the top end. I logged 2 small pulls today to get some initial data on how its performing.

Note: Its super hot here in Missouri right now with some high humidity. Weather app said 93F, my car said 91F. These pulls were done back to back AFTER driving 20 minutes, parking in the heat for 45 minutes, then driving another 20 minutes with a pull here and there so the car had already been through its paces.

Mods: JB4, map 4, E30, AMS Intercooler,

Pull 1: https://datazap.me/u/btd37/map-4-e30-ic-93-91a?log=0&data=1-2-3-4-5-6-11-25-26-27-28

Pull 2: https://datazap.me/u/btd37/map-4-e30-ic-93-91a?log=0&data=1-2-3-4-5-6-11-25-26-27-28

Closest comparison before the IC. Custom map 6, E30 and it was 68F out: https://datazap.me/u/btd37/57-68a-e30-map-6-redux-70?log=0&data=1-4-5-6

If you go by the weather app ambient temp of 93F, IAT dropped to 9F over ambient and then raised slightly to 12F over towards the end of 4th (didn't have enough room to go past 5700 RPM) which is pretty solid. You can somewhat compare that to the log before the IC where it was 68F out, IAT started at 89F, dropped to 84F for a second then climbed all the way up 102F at 5700. Not an apples to apples comparison since I was pushing a little more boost on the map 6 but it gives a rough comparison.

My initial impression is that I'm really happy with this intercooler's performance and I'm glad that I branched out a bit by going with AMS instead of the bigger names for this platform. I've always heard that AMS makes quality products plus their the only ones that seem to have intercoolers in stock right now which made the decision a bit easier. I think the whole debate over bar and plate vs tube and fin is a bit overrated (at least on this platform) for stock location replacements. Both clearly perform well so I wouldn't allow the fact that this intercooler is tube and fin deter you away from it. The only thing you have to be careful about is handling the intercooler when installing it since the fins do bend easy. Other than that, no complaints so far!

 

[jimlloyd40]

Alright, I finally got my AMS intercooler installed. I ultimately just decided to install it myself after watching DAP's video multiple times and being quoted some high numbers. Fitment was spot on. Overall, I gotta say that the install was not that bad compared to what I was expecting. Yes it sucked doing and took me a good 7-8 hours or so but it was more time consuming then difficult. The yellow tabs were a pain and took a good portion of time just trying to unclip. I would almost suggest just buying an extra pair online and cutting the original ones out. Also, the upper bolts that hold the crash bar were a pain to reach do to the headlights being in the way. I tried my best not to monkey with the headlights but I ultimately had to loosen them up to reach the bolts. Those 2 things were the biggest time consumers plus (you can grill me all you want) trying to figure out how to get the front end up on jack stands. Had to jack from the front of the car by the control arms to get each side up. Didn't have room to jack from the pinch weld and slide the jack stand in. Also tried the jacking from the rear method which worked for 1 side but couldn't do the other. May sound silly but I'll be honest, it took me a bit.

In terms of the intercooler's performance, it seems to be working really well. I haven't had a lot of time behind the wheel yet beside from 2 little drives but the car definitely maintains its power now, especially on the top end. I logged 2 small pulls today to get some initial data on how its performing.

Note: Its super hot here in Missouri right now with some high humidity. Weather app said 93F, my car said 91F. These pulls were done back to back AFTER driving 20 minutes, parking in the heat for 45 minutes, then driving another 20 minutes with a pull here and there so the car had already been through its paces.

Mods: JB4, map 4, E30, AMS Intercooler,

Pull 1: https://datazap.me/u/btd37/map-4-e30-ic-93-91a?log=0&data=1-2-3-4-5-6-11-25-26-27-28

Pull 2: https://datazap.me/u/btd37/map-4-e30-ic-93-91a?log=0&data=1-2-3-4-5-6-11-25-26-27-28

Closest comparison before the IC. Custom map 6, E30 and it was 68F out: https://datazap.me/u/btd37/57-68a-e30-map-6-redux-70?log=0&data=1-4-5-6

If you go by the weather app ambient temp of 93F, IAT dropped to 9F over ambient and then raised slightly to 12F over towards the end of 4th (didn't have enough room to go past 5700 RPM) which is pretty solid. You can somewhat compare that to the log before the IC where it was 68F out, IAT started at 89F, dropped to 84F for a second then climbed all the way up 102F at 5700. Not an apples to apples comparison since I was pushing a little more boost on the map 6 but it gives a rough comparison.

My initial impression is that I'm really happy with this intercooler's performance and I'm glad that I branched out a bit by going with AMS instead of the bigger names for this platform. I've always heard that AMS makes quality products plus their the only ones that seem to have intercoolers in stock right now which made the decision a bit easier. I think the whole debate over bar and plate vs tube and fin is a bit overrated (at least on this platform) for stock location replacements. Both clearly perform well so I wouldn't allow the fact that this intercooler is tube and fin deter you away from it. The only thing you have to be careful about is handling the intercooler when installing it since the fins do bend easy. Other than that, no complaints so far!

Excellent review.

 

[mr wrong]

I have a 2017 Alltrack (1.8) with an APR tuned IS20 turbo, and a Neuspeed Golf R FMIC. Would there be any real benefit to to going with a sandwich mount cooler? I started having doubts when I read about the poor flow characteristics of the Neuspeed cooler, but thought that a flow bench isn't a real world scenario, and that maybe my Neuspeed is well up to the task to meet the demands of my smaller engine and stock GTI turbo. My thought is if it works ok on a 2 liter it might work great on a 1.8, or am I being silly?

I realize this is the GTI (2.0) forum, but there's not a lot of in depth discussion about this on the 1.8 section..

Thanks!

 

[Diggs24]

I have a 2017 Alltrack (1.8) with an APR tuned IS20 turbo, and a Neuspeed Golf R FMIC. Would there be any real benefit to to going with a sandwich mount cooler? I started having doubts when I read about the poor flow characteristics of the Neuspeed cooler, but thought that a flow bench isn't a real world scenario, and that maybe my Neuspeed is well up to the task to meet the demands of my smaller engine and stock GTI turbo. My thought is if it works ok on a 2 liter it might work great on a 1.8, or am I being silly?

I realize this is the GTI (2.0) forum, but there's not a lot of in depth discussion about this on the 1.8 section..

Thanks!

im sure its fine

 

[mr wrong]

im sure its fine

Thanks.. As @Chogokin pointed out on post 1995, I freaked out when I saw that flow test..

 

[Chogokin]

I have a 2017 Alltrack (1.8) with an APR tuned IS20 turbo, and a Neuspeed Golf R FMIC. Would there be any real benefit to to going with a sandwich mount cooler? I started having doubts when I read about the poor flow characteristics of the Neuspeed cooler, but thought that a flow bench isn't a real world scenario, and that maybe my Neuspeed is well up to the task to meet the demands of my smaller engine and stock GTI turbo. My thought is if it works ok on a 2 liter it might work great on a 1.8, or am I being silly?

I realize this is the GTI (2.0) forum, but there's not a lot of in depth discussion about this on the 1.8 section..

Thanks!

My friend has the NS intercooler in his IS20 wagon. Besides having to do a bunch of trimming on the bumper to fit the IC...he hasn't had any issues and it keeps his IATs within reason. Don't let that flow test freak you out.

 

[anotero]

My friend has the NS intercooler in his IS20 wagon. Besides having to do a bunch of trimming on the bumper to fit the IC...he hasn't had any issues and it keeps his IATs within reason. Don't let that flow test freak you out.

I started noticing that the NS FMIC is not cooling too well lately. Yes, it's not cold here right now, but even on cooler days (very low 30s degC) it's not cooling as I would like it to.

 

[jimlloyd40]

I started noticing that the NS FMIC is not cooling too well lately. Yes, it's not cold here right now, but even on cooler days (very low 30s degC) it's not cooling as I would like it to.

What do you think changed with it?

 

[Chogokin]

I started noticing that the NS FMIC is not cooling too well lately. Yes, it's not cold here right now, but even on cooler days (very low 30s degC) it's not cooling as I would like it to.

Car feeling sluggish? I don't see how an intercooler can go bad...unless it got damaged somehow or there's blockage inside the core. Maybe a boost leak somewhere? It's been super hot where I am (~105F)...but the evening temps drop into the low 70's...I can feel the car pull more consistent than before.

 

[billbadass]

I have a 2017 Alltrack (1.8) with an APR tuned IS20 turbo, and a Neuspeed Golf R FMIC. Would there be any real benefit to to going with a sandwich mount cooler? I started having doubts when I read about the poor flow characteristics of the Neuspeed cooler, but thought that a flow bench isn't a real world scenario, and that maybe my Neuspeed is well up to the task to meet the demands of my smaller engine and stock GTI turbo. My thought is if it works ok on a 2 liter it might work great on a 1.8, or am I being silly?

I realize this is the GTI (2.0) forum, but there's not a lot of in depth discussion about this on the 1.8 section..

Thanks!

stick with what you have. i did the exact same thing and spent all the time and money to swap my neuspeed is38 intercooler out for a fancy expensive and hard to install APR and picked up maybe 5-6whp on a 460whp setup. On your car that is maybe 300whp at most the difference between the two intercoolers is probably 1-2hp tops

 

[shortyb]

Thanks.. As @Chogokin pointed out on post 1995, I freaked out when I saw that flow test..

Don't obsess over one test about one small aspect of overall performance. I did (and so did Bill) and about drove myself stupid(er). Pay attention to the delta between IATs and ambient which is the more important factor IMHO. It wasn't until I went EQT that I realized that mine does pretty damn good as there was more info in my logs that showed it performs well. At least with my tiny turbo. Anything bigger may (or may not) benefit from more volume that a direct fit may provide. Still, if that were the case, I'd go Baun FMIC for a bigger one. I believe there are some advantages to a front mount vs. direct fit, but it's a personal choice. Lots of decent product out there (including the NS ).

 

[shortyb]

I started noticing that the NS FMIC is not cooling too well lately. Yes, it's not cold here right now, but even on cooler days (very low 30s degC) it's not cooling as I would like it to.

Mine always gets a wider spread when its nuclear holocaust hot outside. Add about a bazillion percent humidity and there just isn't any air density. Plus, if you have lots of moisture in the air, it will retain heat longer and not shed it as quickly as drier air can. Wait til fall, you'll be happy again.