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HELP!!! I've got a flashing CEL & no throttle...

WickedLou9

I'm a geek
Location
South Jersey
Car(s)
2008 GTI
I would never have designed software that would allow the user to put the car into anti-theft mode while driving it. You have to assume that out of the thousands and thousands of users out there that one will accidentally hit that combo while driving. I mean you are enabling this through cruise control, a feature that drivers use while the car is on and running. Any inputs should be disabled while the car is running. Period end of story.

In this case you have a situation where the user can accidentally hit this combo triggering a flashing CEL. Most people will pull over and turn the car off upon seeing a flashing CEL. Having no idea that they just enabled anti-theft mode they try and start the car again only to find that they can't.
This not only creates frustration for the user but also makes APR look bad.

I would suggest to APR that they modify their code to prevent this. It's not a major change.
 

utekineir

Banned
Location
central ma
I've accidentally turened on my apr antitheft while driving like the op did too. And have read another poster did.

I was clueless as to what was happening and after about 20 minutes of idling around a parking lot used the unlock code and everything was fine.


I know when mine got turned on I was using the cruise stalk but I in no way knew what the sequence to activate was or did it correctly.
 

rs_hunter

Ich blute VW-Blau & weiße
$hit happens. I'm sure it wasn't intentional. If it were me and I didn't get it figured out (awesome what a web-based cell phone and these forums can do!) I would have called back myself. That doesn't excuse APR but it's not the end of the world.

Well put.
 

rs_hunter

Ich blute VW-Blau & weiße
I would never have designed software that would allow the user to put the car into anti-theft mode while driving it. You have to assume that out of the thousands and thousands of users out there that one will accidentally hit that combo while driving. I mean you are enabling this through cruise control, a feature that drivers use while the car is on and running. Any inputs should be disabled while the car is running. Period end of story.

In this case you have a situation where the user can accidentally hit this combo triggering a flashing CEL. Most people will pull over and turn the car off upon seeing a flashing CEL. Having no idea that they just enabled anti-theft mode they try and start the car again only to find that they can't.
This not only creates frustration for the user but also makes APR look bad.

I would suggest to APR that they modify their code to prevent this. It's not a major change.

Personally, I have to agree. I can't imagine it being a good thing to drop your car off at a shop with it only being able to idle around. But then that's just me, I almost never take my car to a mechanic, as I do virtually all my own work.

I can imagine an over-enthusiastic shop tearing into your car, trying to figure out what's wrong with it, when there really isn't anything wrong with it. I can also imagine plenty of situations where idle-only power would mean the car couldn't get where it needed to be, IE; the drive into the shop has a slope, the alignment lift is mounted above ground so the car needs to climb ramps, etc.

"Frustrated", yeah, I like that word. I probably would have used the term "scared shit-less" yesterday...:biggrin: Definitely not something I would wish on someone who didn't know about this place, or wouldn't be able to access it from wherever they were.

I'd think that at least making the system ignore inputs while the car was in motion would be a good idea. When the vehicle is moving, I'd assume that the cruise control is actually being used for its intended purpose. I mean, how many people here have engaged the security lock-out on their system? Considering it's not a necessity for the vehicles operation, I'd bet it's a very small proportion.
 

rs_hunter

Ich blute VW-Blau & weiße
I've accidentally turened on my apr antitheft while driving like the op did too. And have read another poster did.

I was clueless as to what was happening and after about 20 minutes of idling around a parking lot used the unlock code and everything was fine.


I know when mine got turned on I was using the cruise stalk but I in no way knew what the sequence to activate was or did it correctly.

I'm glad to know I'm not the only one that this has happened to.:rolleyes:
 

nhbubba

CEL free until 48,398 mi
Location
Seacoast NH
I did not think the anti-theft mode was intended to be used when you dropped the car off at a shop.

WickedLou9 has it balls on. Require the user have the engine off to enable anti-theft mode. I'm not prepared to say that such an change is an 'easy' one nor that it is a minor change. (I work in Software, so I know that's not always the case.) However I do think it would improve the product.

There you have it, a suggestion from a not-yet customer. (Talking about myself here) Take it for what it is.
 

Mike@APR

Mechanical Engineer
Location
'Bama
All,

Most of our customers have requested that ALL APR features be available while driving. For years, people have requested that we allow on-the-fly program switching, fault-code erase, security lock-out, and anti-theft.

However, ONLY the Anti-Theft function is available to be called up while the engine is on. The reason it is available at all times is so that you can use it like an alarm system on the vehicle in every day life. You can roll up to your driveway, hit the key sequence, pull the key out of the ignition and go inside without any key cycling or anything else. Come back to the car the next morning, put the code in, start the car and off you go. Besides all of the timers I mentioned before, if you screw up the activation sequence by hitting any other buttons, the software calls for a function reset and makes you start all over. We have built in some logic to make the activation of this feature a deliberate process and not accidental. So please, give us the benefit of the doubt and realize that we do work hard at this and are not just going at this with a reckless attitude.

Anti-theft from APR has been available for years, way before the days of the 2.0T. In the cases I have seen here on these forums, it appears that the people involved were not even familiar that they had such a feature on their cars. This lack of familiarization with the product they have purchased has made the situation more dramatic than it has to be.

Since the OP has told me that he did not use the proper key sequence to enable the feature, I have to take his word for it. We did not place a key logger in the software :biggrin: Therefore, we are looking at the files that went onto his particular vehicle to determine if there is anything out of the ordinary. However, my mind is not ready to jump the gun with the conclusion that all people should not have this function available to them at all times. I will work with whatever customers need my help and I will be working with the software engineers to look at the OPs code thoroughly to see if there are any issues.

Regards,
 

WickedLou9

I'm a geek
Location
South Jersey
Car(s)
2008 GTI
COuld you include something like:

if speed > 0 then anti_theft = disable. That would allow someone to pull into their driveway, stop,. enable the anti-theft, then shut the car down and walk away.

I don't know exactly what sort of programming language is used in the Bosch ECU, but it would seem that there must be a particular routine or function that is entered into when the user hits this sequence. The first step of that routine could simply be to check vehicle speed. If speed > 0 then exit routine and do nothing. Otherwise continue.
( much like how the MFD will not allow you to enter the settings mode while the vehicle is moving)

This would satisfy the customers demands that you have stated above and it would prevent the sort of issue that the OP had.
 

nhbubba

CEL free until 48,398 mi
Location
Seacoast NH
Most of our customers have requested that ALL APR features be available while driving. For years, people have requested that we allow on-the-fly program switching, fault-code erase, security lock-out, and anti-theft.
That is interesting. I would never use those features with the engine running. I would in fact assume it is inadvisable to change programs while underway.
So please, give us the benefit of the doubt and realize that we do work hard at this and are not just going at this with a reckless attitude.
Fair enough. Sounds like there was some significant thought put into it.

For the record, I for one was not suggesting this feature was any sort of 'reckless attitude'. I legitimately assumed it was a byproduct of the implementation.

My only other comment is that it is rather lame to blame an unfamiliar user for this conundrum. Particularly when the APR user interface re-uses existing interface components, namely the cruise stalk and MIL light.

I for one would assume there is a catastrophic failure when I saw a flashing MIL, not that I had inadvertently activated this feature. After all that is what a flashing MIL is intended to indicate, no?

This is especially true when APR packages the anti-theft in the 'loaded' ECU sales offers; most uninformed users you cite probably bought this feature that way.

Awesome to see an engineer weigh in though! :thumbsup: Wish I could 'talk' to the inganeers behind my damned cable box. :wink:
 

rs_hunter

Ich blute VW-Blau & weiße
All,

Most of our customers have requested that ALL APR features be available while driving. For years, people have requested that we allow on-the-fly program switching, fault-code erase, security lock-out, and anti-theft.

However, ONLY the Anti-Theft function is available to be called up while the engine is on. The reason it is available at all times is so that you can use it like an alarm system on the vehicle in every day life. You can roll up to your driveway, hit the key sequence, pull the key out of the ignition and go inside without any key cycling or anything else. Come back to the car the next morning, put the code in, start the car and off you go. Besides all of the timers I mentioned before, if you screw up the activation sequence by hitting any other buttons, the software calls for a function reset and makes you start all over. We have built in some logic to make the activation of this feature a deliberate process and not accidental. So please, give us the benefit of the doubt and realize that we do work hard at this and are not just going at this with a reckless attitude.

Anti-theft from APR has been available for years, way before the days of the 2.0T. In the cases I have seen here on these forums, it appears that the people involved were not even familiar that they had such a feature on their cars. This lack of familiarization with the product they have purchased has made the situation more dramatic than it has to be.

Since the OP has told me that he did not use the proper key sequence to enable the feature, I have to take his word for it. We did not place a key logger in the software :biggrin: Therefore, we are looking at the files that went onto his particular vehicle to determine if there is anything out of the ordinary. However, my mind is not ready to jump the gun with the conclusion that all people should not have this function available to them at all times. I will work with whatever customers need my help and I will be working with the software engineers to look at the OPs code thoroughly to see if there are any issues.

Regards,

Just for the record, I'm not bashing. I'm very pleased with the program overall. I knew the anti-theft existed, I just had no interest in using it. It was just quite a shock suddenly finding myself on the side of the road, with no clue what the hell was going on. We've all probably heard enough about "the flashing CEL of death" to cause more panic than should ever be necessary in such circumstances.

I didn't even conceive that I could have activated the anti-theft, nor can I imagine now how I would have done so considering the conditions. But hey, crazier shit has happened. At least I (as well as quite a few others) have learned that this is a possibility. If this saves a fellow dubber the unnecessary panic should they find themselves in a similar situation, all the better.:thumbsup:

All's well that ends well...
 

WickedLou9

I'm a geek
Location
South Jersey
Car(s)
2008 GTI
I understand where you're coming from, but speaking as a software engineer, nothing pisses me off more than when a customer submits suggestions for improvements that include pseudo-code. :biggrin:

That said, excellent suggestion.

Pseudo code comes from laziness. :) I think it also comes from writing PL/SQL all day :(
 

Teep

New member
Location
Billerica
Thanks guys, you figured it out! This is just proof that this place rules. Helping a fellow dubber always results in it coming back around.

Just want to post my thanks here too. Had the same issue. Still a bit perplexed as to how I set it off into anti theft mode... but anyways... I got myself back on the road after following the 06/mkv gti instructions.

Easy.
-tp
 

A41.8QTM

That's what she said
Location
Virginia Beach, VA
Car(s)
2008 GTI
So this is the second instance of "spontaneous anti-theft mode" recently? I find it hard to believe that anyone can accidentally hit that exact sequence within the small time window required to change modes.
 

Teep

New member
Location
Billerica
So this is the second instance of "spontaneous anti-theft mode" recently? I find it hard to believe that anyone can accidentally hit that exact sequence within the small time window required to change modes.

I'm almost positive I *could not* have hit that sequence since I am certain I had performed a single action on the stalk when the CEL/antitheft started.

That said, I do use CC a lot and had used it earlier in the day on a highway drive. Then the car sat for hours between drives so, when I found this thread, wondered if it somehow "stored" a sequence that I completed on a subsequent drive?

I used the keywords no throttle, cel, and mkv and found this post. :thumbsup: When I saw the APR chip mention I remembered that right before the CEL started flashing I had a CC stalk action.

I was grateful to see APR on the board here actively assisting their customers. That's commendable!

-tp
 
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