Front and Rear Whiteline Swaybars at 24mm - Settings?

[nearsite00]

So I did a search in the forum already and it seems most people with two aftermarket sway bars, typically have a bigger front (26-28) and a smaller rear (22-26) with the front on 'Soft' and the 'Rear' on Medium/Hard. I understand this is to make the car feel more 'neutral' when turning/cornering.

I haven't seen any threads of anyone's setup for front and rear sway bars that are the same size.

So for the Whiteline sway bars which I purchased, the FSB is 4 point adjustable and the RSB is 3 point adjustable.

http://www.autoanything.com/suspension-systems/61A6663A0A0.aspx.

Question for you tuning experts, what setting would you recommend for a little bit better cornering, with some understeer remaining. My car is stock other than the DG springs which will go on the car at the same time as the sway bars. I want to be able to tell the tuner to dial it in and I don't want to think about it.:iono:

 

[the bruce]

Feel free to ask here: http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45368

 

[carsfeverguy]

First off, the Whiteline 24mm bars front as well as rear both only have 3 settings, not 4 (that site is misinformed...). I know, as I have them both

I go to mosport, which is a high speed track (look it up) and I have them both set on HARD. I also daily them on hard with stock springs and dampers.
I prefer Hard/Hard, as having a car that is less prone to oversteer is safer for me at the track. I also run a reverse staggered setup (wider front tires then rears) which promotes oversteer to begin with.

It is all about balance and whatever works for your needs.

If I was auto-xing I would run hard back, medium or soft front.

 

[nearsite00]

First off, the Whiteline 24mm bars front as well as rear both only have 3 settings, not 4 (that site is misinformed...). I know, as I have them both

I go to mosport, which is a high speed track (look it up) and I have them both set on HARD. I also daily them on hard with stock springs and dampers.
I prefer Hard/Hard, as having a car that is less prone to oversteer is safer for me at the track. I also run a reverse staggered setup (wider front tires then rears) which promotes oversteer to begin with.

It is all about balance and whatever works for your needs.

If I was auto-xing I would run hard back, medium or soft front.

I want to run Medium Front and Soft rear. Will that help offset some of the stock understeer but not totally remove it? I want drivability with just a tad bit less understeer.

 

[carsfeverguy]

Medium front and soft rear will actually increase Understeer, maybe even more than stock...

With bruce's input regarding equal diameter front and rear sway-bars actually increasing rotation tendencies of the vehicle

Equal/Equal will probably keep the inherent oversteer tendencies of the equal diameter sway bar setup.

How much , you decide, again, hard/hard on stock suspension gives a very "bmw feel" for me, but everyone is different and yes dampers matter.

Softer in the front than in the back will increase oversteer Much more than stock, on vehicles with equal diameter bars. Not always a good thing. If you daily, and with wet asphalt, might make freeway merging or tight corners dangerous if not careful/ ready to counter-steer a slide ...

 

[the bruce]

Don't get me wrong, guys, but we're talking about Whiteline bars which are 24 mm both
front and rear and stock bars are larger in dia on front. Most of you will know that.
My personal experience with these:
With the WL sway bar kit it's more than hard increasing understeer compared to stock.

There's way too much missleading halfwisdom about sway bars on the forums but I
assume there are different preferences. So don't take all you read on the web and on
forums as truth - particularly when it comes to genereal rules about sway bars on FWD
cars. It's NOT that easy.

 

[nearsite00]

Medium front and soft rear will actually increase Understeer, maybe even more than stock...

With bruce's input regarding equal diameter front and rear sway-bars actually increasing rotation tendencies of the vehicle

Equal/Equal will probably keep the inherent oversteer tendencies of the equal diameter sway bar setup.

How much , you decide, again, hard/hard on stock suspension gives a very "bmw feel" for me, but everyone is different and yes dampers matter.

Softer in the front than in the back will increase oversteer Much more than stock, on vehicles with equal diameter bars. Not always a good thing. If you daily, and with wet asphalt, might make freeway merging or tight corners dangerous if not careful/ ready to counter-steer a slide ...

That's interesting, I thought if the REAR was firmer than the FRONT, then you would create oversteer? The stock sway bars are NOT equal diameters.....The front is bigger than the rear.

What I want to do is Medium in Front and Soft in Rear - are you saying this will cause oversteer, or will it (what I think) reduce understeer?

 

[carsfeverguy]

That's interesting, I thought if the REAR was firmer than the FRONT, then you would create oversteer? The stock sway bars are NOT equal diameters.....The front is bigger than the rear.

What I want to do is Medium in Front and Soft in Rear - are you saying this will cause oversteer, or will it (what I think) reduce understeer?

I know the stocks are of different diameter front vs back thank you...

And yes, firmer rear then front will increase oversteer tendencies.

Softer rear with harder front will create understeer. Would it be as much as stock( with the different size swaybars) or more?? or less?? who Knows?

Your desire is to reduce understeer by a little while not completely removing it? Am I correct on this??
Then if you want to achieve this , you could try soft/soft, medium/medium, or hard/hard since because of the equal size swaybars, there is a natural decrease in understeer already built in, before the adjustment as Bruce mentioned.

Ok I am done.

 

[nearsite00]

I know the stocks are of different diameter front vs back thank you...

And yes, firmer rear then front will increase oversteer tendencies.

Softer rear with harder front will create understeer. Would it be as much as stock( with the different size swaybars) or more?? or less?? who Knows?

Your desire is to reduce understeer by a little while not completely removing it? Am I correct on this??
Then if you want to achieve this , you could try soft/soft, medium/medium, or hard/hard since because of the equal size swaybars, there is a natural decrease in understeer already built in, before the adjustment as Bruce mentioned.

Ok I am done.

Gotcha, thank you! I just thought to set the front a little bit harder becuase:

1. The front has more weight.
2. The stock front is 24mm which is being replaced by an aftermarket 24mm so there's not much change I assume?
3. The rear has gone up from stock 21mm to aftermarket 24mm

 

[carsfeverguy]

Gotcha, thank you! I just thought to set the front a little bit harder becuase:

1. The front has more weight.
2. The stock front is 24mm which is being replaced by an aftermarket 24mm so there's not much change I assume?
3. The rear has gone up from stock 21mm to aftermarket 24mm

Whiteline 24mm is not hallow, while the stock one is hallow so really you are going from a 20-21mmbar to a 24mm bar.

In the back it's more like going from a 19mm to a 24 mm.

So there is actually quite a change.

Now if you set them both on hard, whiteline considers those as 25mm bars, while the soft setting is 23mm bars.


Do as you wish, but I would try soft/soft, and see how you like them.
They are adjustable after all.

Just a heads up, don't tighten the end-links with the wheels in the air, when you do adjustments. That will preload the sways, and not allow them to work properly, and even snap the end-links. Make sure the suspension is loaded(wheels on the ground or on a ramp) when you tighten those end-links. And remember to install the lateral locks.

 

[nearsite00]

Whiteline 24mm is not hallow, while the stock one is hallow so really you are going from a 20-21mmbar to a 24mm bar.

In the back it's more like going from a 19mm to a 24 mm.

So there is actually quite a change.

Now if you set them both on hard, whiteline considers those as 25mm bars, while the soft setting is 23mm bars.


Do as you wish, but I would try soft/soft, and see how you like them.
They are adjustable after all.

Just a heads up, don't tighten the end-links with the wheels in the air, when you do adjustments. That will preload the sways, and not allow them to work properly, and even snap the end-links. Make sure the suspension is loaded(wheels on the ground or on a ramp) when you tighten those end-links. And remember to install the lateral locks.

Thank you, appreciate your advice! I'm not installing them myself, I'm taking them to Auto Innovations in the Bay Area who will install both sway bars, my springs and perform an alignment for $530 OTD.

 

[carsfeverguy]

Still make sure you watch them ....Saw a shop doing them in the air...bad bad bad.
Also, you may still want to adjust them at a later date yourself, not rocket science...

Also bring teflon tape with you, to wrap the bar under the bushings ( to avoid squeaking of the bushings later on. )

 

[the bruce]

Guess we all agree the WL bars increase sway bar stiffness more at rear than on front.
So with equal setting both front and rear they tend to reduce factory given understeer.

Keep im mind there so much complexity. Camber setting, tires, suspension (spring rates)
and many things more.
Roll centers front and rear are different and even more they change differently when
lowering the car. All this does affect understeer/oversteer tendencies by a huge margin !!


On a side note:

- Do you want to reduce understeer or improve turn in and steering?
- If: Why reduce understeer?

 

[ROOSTER1050]

Guess we all agree the WL bars increase sway bar stiffness more at rear than on front.
So with equal setting both front and rear they tend to reduce factory given understeer.

Keep im mind there so much complexity. Camber setting, tires, suspension (spring rates)
and many things more.
Roll centers front and rear are different and even more they change differently when
lowering the car. All this does affect understeer/oversteer tendencies by a huge margin !!


On a side note:

- Do you want to reduce understeer or improve turn in and steering?
- If: Why reduce understeer?

THREAD REVIVAL!! .....would the same apply for APR F/R sways??? just looking for best cornering possible, while keeping power to the wheels as possible....
APR F/R sways with Whiteline WALK kit and ADJ end links in front....

 

[Modshack1]

THREAD REVIVAL!! .....would the same apply for APR F/R sways??? just looking for best cornering possible, while keeping power to the wheels as possible....
APR F/R sways with Whiteline WALK kit and ADJ end links in front....

A good setting for the APR's would be soft up front, medium on the rear. I run this with DG springs and find it very balanced without any ride penalty.
With same diameter bars, always run the rears one notch up to deal with the inherent understeer..