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Eurodyne Maestro for MK5 GTi 2.0T FSI- APR Stage 3

Wazzap1101

Ready to race!
Location
Long Island
There arent many DIY tuning guides for the BPY platform, I was wondering if anyone has tried it and is very knowledgable in tuning. I've got APR Stage 3 meaning 4" MAF and a GT2871R that need to be taken into consideration. Also, I think the APR injectors are RS4 ones (or at least they look alike)

Finally, please dont say "run the APR 100 octane tune for more power", its a waste of a post. Thanks
 
Last edited:

MKV727

Go Kart Champion
Location
Tampa, FL
APR stage 3 injectors are modified S3 injectors done in house by their engineers and flow tested with their equipment.

I understand you don't want to run APR's 100 octane file but it would be considerably easier to go that route. The car was recalibrated to a larger MAF that could have a different voltage output than the regular sized MAF. The low pressure system is stock and then modified electronically by APR's engineers to achieve the correct amount of output. It was painstakingly done by APR in collaboration with VWoA to have a perfect tune that allows the correct advance, EGT's and boost to a point that doesn't go past the OEM MAP sensors capabilities.

Here are the obstacles:

- Different sized MAF
- Different calibration for the low pressure fueling system
- Optimized not to surpass 23psi
- Injectors that are unique with characteristics only APR knows about

If the tuning system you want to use is based off of OEM MAF, RS4 injectors and a mechanical means of raising the LPFP's output it's not going to appreciate a lot of the features that come with APR's stage 3. The people who buy this kit are the set it and forget it type of folks who appreciate the system as is. You're taking a system that has hours upon hours of R&D with unique propietary parts and adjustingment, I don't know what will happen. FWIW, the 100 octane file is no slouch and an Aquamist WMI system will best the regular 100 octane output as it achieves greater cooling and higher than 100 octane knock resistance with the methanol.

To make life easier? Sell the stage 3 kit and you'll have the money to go BT via CTS Turbo/ATP/whomever and grab RS4 injectors, USP Motorsports LPFP solution and run it as hard as you desire. APR's stage 3 was never designed to be altered by anybody but themselves and I think you'll run into too many obstacles and frankly not make anymore power than you would have running 100 octane with Aquamist WMI. I'm sure Eurodyne's solution can recognize, all of the variable that will be unique to APR (in short, custom fueling and MAF readings) but you'll be in uncharted areas as most don't go this route. There's plenty of experts on this forum who run RS4, flapper less intake manifolds, upgraded LPFP and other BT modifications but they won't be as much help with your current set up... Only APR will be capable of helping at an expert level and I'm sure they aren't going to want the liability of what you want to do.
 

MKV727

Go Kart Champion
Location
Tampa, FL
Oh one more thing the stage 3 system was calibrated using APR's equipment. It was pushed to the limit it is at now with APR's own data logging tools. The real time variables, conditions, adjustability are all different than Eurodyne's.

Even if the logging tools are equivalent there is no doubt they are not the same. The real time variables APR monitored are something you might not be able to see or vice versa. APR had a bung added to accurately measure EGTs and determine what the tune liked and didn't like. Are you going to be able to do the same?

Is this going to be your daily driver?
 

cruizin01

Go Kart Champion
Location
C-bus Ohio
Car(s)
07 Rabbit
you'd basically be forced to switch over to a mafless tune and utitlize a EBC instead of N75 to control boost. probably run fine but it wont be fine tuned like your current setup. You wont find any DIY tuning guides for meastro. You mostly fend for yourself.
 

Wazzap1101

Ready to race!
Location
Long Island
APR stage 3 injectors are modified S3 injectors done in house by their engineers and flow tested with their equipment.

I understand you don't want to run APR's 100 octane file but it would be considerably easier to go that route. The car was recalibrated to a larger MAF that could have a different voltage output than the regular sized MAF. The low pressure system is stock and then modified electronically by APR's engineers to achieve the correct amount of output. It was painstakingly done by APR in collaboration with VWoA to have a perfect tune that allows the correct advance, EGT's and boost to a point that doesn't go past the OEM MAP sensors capabilities.

Here are the obstacles:

- Different sized MAF
- Different calibration for the low pressure fueling system
- Optimized not to surpass 23psi
- Injectors that are unique with characteristics only APR knows about

If the tuning system you want to use is based off of OEM MAF, RS4 injectors and a mechanical means of raising the LPFP's output it's not going to appreciate a lot of the features that come with APR's stage 3. The people who buy this kit are the set it and forget it type of folks who appreciate the system as is. You're taking a system that has hours upon hours of R&D with unique propietary parts and adjustingment, I don't know what will happen. FWIW, the 100 octane file is no slouch and an Aquamist WMI system will best the regular 100 octane output as it achieves greater cooling and higher than 100 octane knock resistance with the methanol.

To make life easier? Sell the stage 3 kit and you'll have the money to go BT via CTS Turbo/ATP/whomever and grab RS4 injectors, USP Motorsports LPFP solution and run it as hard as you desire. APR's stage 3 was never designed to be altered by anybody but themselves and I think you'll run into too many obstacles and frankly not make anymore power than you would have running 100 octane with Aquamist WMI. I'm sure Eurodyne's solution can recognize, all of the variable that will be unique to APR (in short, custom fueling and MAF readings) but you'll be in uncharted areas as most don't go this route. There's plenty of experts on this forum who run RS4, flapper less intake manifolds, upgraded LPFP and other BT modifications but they won't be as much help with your current set up... Only APR will be capable of helping at an expert level and I'm sure they aren't going to want the liability of what you want to do.
Thanks for the response :thumbsup:, but I am already running APR 100 octane tune with wm, which is why I wasn't looking for that as a suggestion:wink: . There nothing wrong with the tune, I just want to know more information about Maestro 7 and maybe start thinking about future plans; and I want to find out if tuning with maestro is within my capability.

I have read online that Maestro has an injector tuning wizard which will help with the injector situation. Also, I spoke to a forum member who says that Maestro can produce tunes for resized MAF. I already have good hardware, so I dont think I need to sell the kit and get a bigger turbo :smile:

Pretty much to sum it up, I know maestro can create a tune for my setup, I just want to figure out how from people that are already using the software
 

John/Cue\Publik

Speed>stance
Location
Lake Stevens, WA
Car(s)
2007 Rabbit
I'll poke my head in here and say going all out and swapping to a Haltech ECU and sensors may eradicate some of the headaches of tuning the stock ECU with eurodyne. But I'd suggest talking to USP and AWD motorsports in Florida about that to see if it fits your taste better. It may look better to you or it may not but I figure if you're looking to DIY tune it might be best to make the jump to SEM. No matter what there's gonna be a lot of datalogging and waveform study to get it right I'd imagine.
Some of the higer end units have flex fuel sensors
 

Wazzap1101

Ready to race!
Location
Long Island
you'd basically be forced to switch over to a mafless tune and utitlize a EBC instead of N75 to control boost. probably run fine but it wont be fine tuned like your current setup. You wont find any DIY tuning guides for meastro. You mostly fend for yourself.
I just found out that Maestro can scale the MAF, so I wont need a MAF-less tune :happyanim:


I'll poke my head in here and say going all out and swapping to a Haltech ECU and sensors may eradicate some of the headaches of tuning the stock ECU with eurodyne. But I'd suggest talking to USP and AWD motorsports in Florida about that to see if it fits your taste better. It may look better to you or it may not but I figure if you're looking to DIY tune it might be best to make the jump to SEM. No matter what there's gonna be a lot of datalogging and waveform study to get it right I'd imagine.
Some of the higer end units have flex fuel sensors
Thanks! I will definitely take a look into it and see how it is. Im not really going all out; I still want to DD my car. From my understanding, Maestro is similar to Revo's SPS+ except with a ton more bells and whistles, and a different interface. I'd like to stick the maestro idea because they offer a baseline tune, and meastro editor allows you to tweak certain things. I like the idea of that.
 

RRacerguy717

Go Kart Champion
Location
ny tristate
There arent many DIY tuning guides for the BPY platform, I was wondering if anyone has tried it and is very knowledgable in tuning. I've got APR Stage 3 meaning 4" MAF and a GT2871R that need to be taken into consideration. Also, I think the APR injectors are RS4 ones (or at least they look alike)

Finally, please dont say "run the APR 100 octane tune for more power", its a waste of a post. Thanks
Don't put the cart before the horse lol. You need to address the limits of the fuel systems ( low pressure and HPFP systems ). Like said above but without the smoke and mirrors and plainly put. APR never really Adressed the FSI fuel system short commings and tuned around it with there stage 3 SW and left there Stage 3 customers way short of there advertised power figures as you well know. . Start off with your WHP goals, change the hardware to match the goals make then make sure you have enough fueling for that goal. There plenty of SW and hardware options now for the fsi including custom tuners espec here in the tri-state area. Bob G :thumbsup:
 

Wazzap1101

Ready to race!
Location
Long Island
Don't put the cart before the horse lol. You need to address the limits of the fuel systems ( low pressure and HPFP systems ). Like said above but without the smoke and mirrors and plainly put. APR never really Adressed the FSI fuel system short commings and tuned around it with there stage 3 SW and left there Stage 3 customers way short of there advertised power figures as you well know. . Start off with your WHP goals, change the hardware to match the goals make then make sure you have enough fueling for that goal. There plenty of SW and hardware options now for the fsi including custom tuners espec here in the tri-state area. Bob G :thumbsup:
Thanks Bob! :thumbsup: I guess Im looking for around the 400WHP range, maybe a tad higher. Suppsoedly the lpfp that came with APR's kit supports that much (I think I remember reading this somewhere). I'm hoping maestro is easy enough to use to take advantage of my wm
 

HereticByDefault

Go Kart Champion
Location
Chicago
Its supposed to be pretty user-friendly (as far as tuning suites go...lol) but Im in a similar situation to yours, except I dont have the turbo kit yet.

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2
 

MKV727

Go Kart Champion
Location
Tampa, FL
Thanks Bob! :thumbsup: I guess Im looking for around the 400WHP range, maybe a tad higher. Suppsoedly the lpfp that came with APR's kit supports that much (I think I remember reading this somewhere). I'm hoping maestro is easy enough to use to take advantage of my wm
We do not know the limits of the LPFP and APR's modified injectors. On 93 octane I was told the LPFP is tapped at 400bhp. Switch either one of those and your tune becomes whacked out.
 

Wazzap1101

Ready to race!
Location
Long Island
We do not know the limits of the LPFP and APR's modified injectors. On 93 octane I was told the LPFP is tapped at 400bhp. Switch either one of those and your tune becomes whacked out.
USRT say the limit is around 400WHP I believe, and I think the injectors that come with APR STG3 should be fine. Dont they use the same injectors on their stage 4 cars?
 

MKV727

Go Kart Champion
Location
Tampa, FL
USRT say the limit is around 400WHP I believe, and I think the injectors that come with APR STG3 should be fine. Dont they use the same injectors on their stage 4 cars?
USRT probably got the 400whp number running WMI which is much different as they can run a more aggressive lamba with less fuel in the mix and produce less heat.

Getting 400whp on 93 octane is much different than with WMI.
 
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