ViRtUaLheretic
╭∩╮（︶__︶
- Location
- KC MO
- Car(s)
- 2009 VW GTI
Credit:
First off I would like to thank Eurocars for making the delrin dogbone bushing and would like to thank JC@DouglasVW and Force Fed Engineering for giving me the idea.
(link to thread: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5850928 )
Link to Eurocar's Delrin bushing and HPFP stud thread:
http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=181828
Please note that if you have a vagina and think that installing a torque mount insert is "too much NVH" then hit the back button on your browser, this is not for you.
History
Gather round the fire kiddos, lets backtrack a little ways....
FFE started to make replacement VF delrin and aluminum bushings for the MKIV/MKV/MKVI a while ago and I had asked if they were compatable with BSH mounts and he said that they were not and that it was on the list of things to make, but it was pretty far down the list....
One day while trolling the BT FAQ2 thread on GolfMKV somebody mentioned delrin bushings and I chimed in saying I wanted to try out a delrin dogbone bushing and Eurocars said he could make one if he had a spare to base it off of and it just so happened I ordered 2 sets of replacement BSH bushings as my dogbone bushing was mangled. I sent the spare bushing to Eurocars and he has made 20 sets and he sent me one to test out and has sent out a few to some other people here on the forums as well.
I had ordered a set of replacement BSH bushings as some of my DSG shifts were real sloppy and I could feel it jerking around a bit so I climbed under the car to investigate. I couldnt find anyting out of the ordinary secept when I went to scoot around on my back I grabbed the wheel to give me leverage and was able to wobble it around and could see the DSG moving. I immediately looked at the dogbone and found the culprit. This made me realize the amount of force that goes into this mount, specifically the bushing, so I REALLY wanted to tighten that up as much as possible, and delrin was the answer.
Culprit and replacement:
Side note, BSH is still alive and (barely) kicking, support was slow, but all said and done it took about a week of chat to get the order rolling for the 2 replacement bushings (figured they might not be around for forever so I went ahead and got 2, not knowing I would later ship the spare to Eurocars :thumbsup: ).
Also worth noting is that the "OLD" BSH Dogbone Bushings were two different sized pieces, one short one longer. I suspect this was done to ease install. The new bushings I received from BSH are both the short sizes. I suspect this is purely a cost cutting method and when questioned about it they did not respond....
Eurocars ended up removing his dogbone bushing and modeling the replacement delrin bushings off of the original "OLD" design as this product is designed purely for performance and not for cutting corners.
Install
The install for replacement dogbone bushings is easy, throw your car up on ramps, remove the two bolts from the dogbone arm (no you do not have to remove the bolt that goes through the torque mount insert in the subframe), slide a jack under the car, put a piece of wood on the jack, and raise up the transmission. This will give you ample room to remove the two poly pieces of the bushing and remove the metal insert.
If you are replacing the worn poly bushings with new poly bushings the install is super easy, however with the delrin bushing it is not as easy as delrin obviously does not give like poly so I had to sand down the bushings a little bit to make it fit.
**Word of warning** Do NOT over sand the bushing as you want it to be real tight so you do not have any slop in the mount!
I spent 15 mins or so with some 60 grit sanding down the delrin bushing then cleaning up the rough edges with 200grit, for sanding the inside of the bushing in order to get the insert to fit I took a 1/2" socket extension bar, wrapped that in sandpaper and then violated the inside of the hole like a horny rabbit (taking breaks every so often to check to see if the insert would fit). Once the insert was able to fit I gently tapped the insert with a rubber mallet to see if the insert would fit all the way in and it was able to start so I backed out the insert and proceded to install it into the dogbone.
**Another note** Refer to the picture as the delrin bushing pieces are two different sizes, and the smaller bushing piece should be fit in the top part of the dogbone as there isnt a whole lot of room to work with.
Once the top insert is in you then insert the bushing insert, lightly tap it with a rubber mallet to get it seated, then insert the lower bushing lightly tapping it with a rubber mallet. Once everything is set go ahead and shine a light in the bolt hole in the dogbone to check if you can install the bolt, if the bolt hole does not line up slowly lower the jack untill the bolt hole lines up then install the bolt.
All cars are not created equal so some adjustment may be needed and you might have to get creative to line up the bolt holes. I have a full set of BSH mounts, Unibrace xB, Unibrace uB, stern subframe brace, and Tyrolsport locking collars so there isnt a whole lot of give to my chasis and I found if I got a prybar/flathead screwdriver I could wedge it between the dogbone and transmission just a tad to get the bolt hole to line up perfectly.
Once everything is secured, torque everything to spec, and go for a test drive!
Test Drive
My first driving impression was *HOLY SHITBALLS THATS A LOT OF NVH!*
I actually stopped and double checked the car ot make sure everything was ok as driving it felt like something was wrong like the parking break was still on or something of the sort.
I did a quick drive around the block in Manual mode to make sure everythign was ok then pulled the car back in, checked to make sure everythign was tight and setteld in for the night.
I didn't like the feeling of the bushing at that point and did some research to see if delrin "breaks in", it didnt sound very reassuring but I decided to give it a shot and drove to and from that week with the bushings in (car in auto mode). Surprisingly the next day driving to work didn't feel as bad as the first night, maybe everything wasnt settled all the way but I didnt get to torque everything down much more than after the first test drive. Rush hour traffic wasn't too bad, but every time as soon as you start to give it gas you could literally FEEL it in the cabin. The real test was going to be going back to St Louis from Kansas City that weekend (250 miles each way and ~4hours).
Setting the car on cruise control for 4 hours at 80mph was smooth with a little bit of extra noise, but was def tolerable. Im not going to lie I get bored driving through Missouri and Kansas and I liek to have fun when nobody is around and do random WOT pulls. Each time I would do a WOT pull the DSG shifts felt VERY solid and firm and the NVH seemed to lessen the longer I drove. Hooray!
After the whole weekend trip I had logged around 1,000 miles on the bushings and can say they do in fact "break in". The car now feels like I have a set of freshly installed BSH mounts pre-break in. I know some people will not like this mod, but I am obviously not your average driver and really do like the way the car feels now. I now have that happy fun "fresh racecar feel" all over again.
New mods always make a car fun to drive again, and while the first 48 hours was a bit much, the car is now tolerable and I don't have any problems driving around at all. The harmonics are there around ~2500 rpm as you accelerate, but its not bad and I plan to keep the bushings installed. :thumbsup:
I plan on testing out Launch Control sometime soon, but I tend to not use it much, esp since my tires are low on tread.
I can make a video of an in cabin drive to see if I can capture the NVH, but I figure the people that want these bushings are going to get them anyways.
Yes I realize I wrote a small novel, if you don't like it. too bad :biggrin:
TLDR
Delrin is hard
Hard bushings in dogbone add NVH
Install was easy
After 1,000 miles the bushings were "broken in"
Car now feels like I have freshly installed motor mounts all over again
DSG shifts are sharp and precise again with NO slop
I like bacon
Send Eurocars your cash monies, he love you long time :wub:
First off I would like to thank Eurocars for making the delrin dogbone bushing and would like to thank JC@DouglasVW and Force Fed Engineering for giving me the idea.
(link to thread: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5850928 )
Link to Eurocar's Delrin bushing and HPFP stud thread:
http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=181828
Please note that if you have a vagina and think that installing a torque mount insert is "too much NVH" then hit the back button on your browser, this is not for you.
History
Gather round the fire kiddos, lets backtrack a little ways....
FFE started to make replacement VF delrin and aluminum bushings for the MKIV/MKV/MKVI a while ago and I had asked if they were compatable with BSH mounts and he said that they were not and that it was on the list of things to make, but it was pretty far down the list....
One day while trolling the BT FAQ2 thread on GolfMKV somebody mentioned delrin bushings and I chimed in saying I wanted to try out a delrin dogbone bushing and Eurocars said he could make one if he had a spare to base it off of and it just so happened I ordered 2 sets of replacement BSH bushings as my dogbone bushing was mangled. I sent the spare bushing to Eurocars and he has made 20 sets and he sent me one to test out and has sent out a few to some other people here on the forums as well.
I had ordered a set of replacement BSH bushings as some of my DSG shifts were real sloppy and I could feel it jerking around a bit so I climbed under the car to investigate. I couldnt find anyting out of the ordinary secept when I went to scoot around on my back I grabbed the wheel to give me leverage and was able to wobble it around and could see the DSG moving. I immediately looked at the dogbone and found the culprit. This made me realize the amount of force that goes into this mount, specifically the bushing, so I REALLY wanted to tighten that up as much as possible, and delrin was the answer.
Culprit and replacement:
Side note, BSH is still alive and (barely) kicking, support was slow, but all said and done it took about a week of chat to get the order rolling for the 2 replacement bushings (figured they might not be around for forever so I went ahead and got 2, not knowing I would later ship the spare to Eurocars :thumbsup: ).
Also worth noting is that the "OLD" BSH Dogbone Bushings were two different sized pieces, one short one longer. I suspect this was done to ease install. The new bushings I received from BSH are both the short sizes. I suspect this is purely a cost cutting method and when questioned about it they did not respond....
Eurocars ended up removing his dogbone bushing and modeling the replacement delrin bushings off of the original "OLD" design as this product is designed purely for performance and not for cutting corners.
Install
The install for replacement dogbone bushings is easy, throw your car up on ramps, remove the two bolts from the dogbone arm (no you do not have to remove the bolt that goes through the torque mount insert in the subframe), slide a jack under the car, put a piece of wood on the jack, and raise up the transmission. This will give you ample room to remove the two poly pieces of the bushing and remove the metal insert.
If you are replacing the worn poly bushings with new poly bushings the install is super easy, however with the delrin bushing it is not as easy as delrin obviously does not give like poly so I had to sand down the bushings a little bit to make it fit.
**Word of warning** Do NOT over sand the bushing as you want it to be real tight so you do not have any slop in the mount!
I spent 15 mins or so with some 60 grit sanding down the delrin bushing then cleaning up the rough edges with 200grit, for sanding the inside of the bushing in order to get the insert to fit I took a 1/2" socket extension bar, wrapped that in sandpaper and then violated the inside of the hole like a horny rabbit (taking breaks every so often to check to see if the insert would fit). Once the insert was able to fit I gently tapped the insert with a rubber mallet to see if the insert would fit all the way in and it was able to start so I backed out the insert and proceded to install it into the dogbone.
**Another note** Refer to the picture as the delrin bushing pieces are two different sizes, and the smaller bushing piece should be fit in the top part of the dogbone as there isnt a whole lot of room to work with.
Once the top insert is in you then insert the bushing insert, lightly tap it with a rubber mallet to get it seated, then insert the lower bushing lightly tapping it with a rubber mallet. Once everything is set go ahead and shine a light in the bolt hole in the dogbone to check if you can install the bolt, if the bolt hole does not line up slowly lower the jack untill the bolt hole lines up then install the bolt.
All cars are not created equal so some adjustment may be needed and you might have to get creative to line up the bolt holes. I have a full set of BSH mounts, Unibrace xB, Unibrace uB, stern subframe brace, and Tyrolsport locking collars so there isnt a whole lot of give to my chasis and I found if I got a prybar/flathead screwdriver I could wedge it between the dogbone and transmission just a tad to get the bolt hole to line up perfectly.
Once everything is secured, torque everything to spec, and go for a test drive!
Test Drive
My first driving impression was *HOLY SHITBALLS THATS A LOT OF NVH!*
I actually stopped and double checked the car ot make sure everything was ok as driving it felt like something was wrong like the parking break was still on or something of the sort.
I did a quick drive around the block in Manual mode to make sure everythign was ok then pulled the car back in, checked to make sure everythign was tight and setteld in for the night.
I didn't like the feeling of the bushing at that point and did some research to see if delrin "breaks in", it didnt sound very reassuring but I decided to give it a shot and drove to and from that week with the bushings in (car in auto mode). Surprisingly the next day driving to work didn't feel as bad as the first night, maybe everything wasnt settled all the way but I didnt get to torque everything down much more than after the first test drive. Rush hour traffic wasn't too bad, but every time as soon as you start to give it gas you could literally FEEL it in the cabin. The real test was going to be going back to St Louis from Kansas City that weekend (250 miles each way and ~4hours).
Setting the car on cruise control for 4 hours at 80mph was smooth with a little bit of extra noise, but was def tolerable. Im not going to lie I get bored driving through Missouri and Kansas and I liek to have fun when nobody is around and do random WOT pulls. Each time I would do a WOT pull the DSG shifts felt VERY solid and firm and the NVH seemed to lessen the longer I drove. Hooray!
After the whole weekend trip I had logged around 1,000 miles on the bushings and can say they do in fact "break in". The car now feels like I have a set of freshly installed BSH mounts pre-break in. I know some people will not like this mod, but I am obviously not your average driver and really do like the way the car feels now. I now have that happy fun "fresh racecar feel" all over again.
New mods always make a car fun to drive again, and while the first 48 hours was a bit much, the car is now tolerable and I don't have any problems driving around at all. The harmonics are there around ~2500 rpm as you accelerate, but its not bad and I plan to keep the bushings installed. :thumbsup:
I plan on testing out Launch Control sometime soon, but I tend to not use it much, esp since my tires are low on tread.
I can make a video of an in cabin drive to see if I can capture the NVH, but I figure the people that want these bushings are going to get them anyways.
Yes I realize I wrote a small novel, if you don't like it. too bad :biggrin:
TLDR
Delrin is hard
Hard bushings in dogbone add NVH
Install was easy
After 1,000 miles the bushings were "broken in"
Car now feels like I have freshly installed motor mounts all over again
DSG shifts are sharp and precise again with NO slop
I like bacon
Send Eurocars your cash monies, he love you long time :wub:
