DSG tune for s2 - needed?

[alper]

ROW GTI Clubsport (IS38) currently on stage 1 ECU and TCU tune.

Not happy with the performance of the ECU tune (don't ask who, it's a small local tuner and completely irrelevant to probably more than 99% of the members here) so almost ready to jump ship to a different tuner.

At the same time, I am considering getting a DP and going straight to stage 2. It would be easier if I could limit the cost to just a new DP + s2 ECU tune but how necessary is a DSG s2 tune?

My experience with the stage 1 DSG tune is that it is mostly a "placebo" mod as it offers no increased clamping pressure (verified by logs), no faster shift times, and no difference/improvement in the driveability that I've noticed (car drove fine even with just a Jb4).

However, the stage 2 brings that extra bit of torque which I assume makes things more tricky, and to my knowledge, the s2 DSG tune of the new tuner does indeed increase the clamping pressure.

So, I am right in thinking that If I go stage 2, clutch slipping (and eventually tuning the DSG) will be inevitable? Anyone running s2 ECU with stock DSG and how is it?

 

[Hoon]

I'm sure your stock DSG tune is different than mine, but with an IS38 I was getting trans slip on pump gas with a slightly better than stock DSG tune.

Flashed back to stock TCU tune on E30 in the name of science and the slip was awful, definitely would have killed the trans if I kept driving it like that.

APR trans tune fixed the issue, although I don't like their trans tune, it's the best option when running Cobb.

If you go Cobb, go APR TCU. Other than that, use the TCU tune that matches the ECU. Uni ECU and TCU was a great combo when I was stock turbo, and I like Uni's TCU tune much better than APR, but unfortunately with Cobb it doesn't have enough clamping pressure. It's ultimately a Cobb problem, not a Uni problem.

 

[alper]

For sure, If I did go for the DSG tune as well it would be from the same tuner that will map the ECU (APR by the way). The thing is I'd like to know better if I will need a DSG tune before I commit to a DP/stage 2 or rather stick with the original plan of simply changing stage 1 ECU tune.
This all started as a relatively cheap upgrade (I will be refunded on my current ECU tune so I will only pay the difference). But if adding a DP means adding a DSG tune also it raises the cost significantly.

 

[SugarMouth]

I would start over and go with a different tune for both ECU and TCU. I went TCU tune from stage 1 forward. A good TCU tune not only protects your clutches but makes the car drive much better with improved shift schedule etc.

 

[Hoon]

Agree with SugarMouth.

Even stage 1 is a big bump, and a good DSG tune makes the car much better to drive and removes a lot of the annoying habits of the stock programming.

Personally I wouldn't go APR if I had any other option, as I find their TCU tune, and their dealer-centric business model quite annoying.

TCU tune for IS38s was made to feel agressive but really just makes the car feel like a gutless economy car. Need to go up a 1% incline? DOWNSHIFT! Ran over an ant? DOWNSHIFT! Driving through a neighborhood with almost no throttle input? Let's hold 2500rpm in D mode and make a bunch of noise.

It drives me mad.

Not sure how the ECU tune is on IS38s, but on IS20s they run a shitload of boost in the mid-range and then fall on their face.

 

[alper]

I hear you all, seems a DSG tune is a must for stage 2 which might make me forget about it all-together (for the time being) and stick with s1. As I said, I haven't had real issues with stock DSG and Jb4 so I am considering just the ECU map but that is anyway something that I can always do at a later stage after I drive the car with the new software for a while.

Thing is I have very limited access to reputable tuners here so I don't have the luxury of choosing a tune which would suit my style 100%. I think for a stage 1 it won't matter so much anyway whoever of the "big names" I go with so it's mostly a matter of how good a feed-back I get from each dealer. The APR dealer I am speaking with is extremely accessible and communicative which is what has almost sold me to the tune. Nothing is set in stone though.

 

[SugarMouth]

Nothing is set in stone though.

There is a bunch more torque with a stage 1 tune. I'd think about a TCU tune sooner than later.

Where are you located?

 

[DP03]

Agree with SugarMouth.

Even stage 1 is a big bump, and a good DSG tune makes the car much better to drive and removes a lot of the annoying habits of the stock programming.

Personally I wouldn't go APR if I had any other option, as I find their TCU tune, and their dealer-centric business model quite annoying.

TCU tune for IS38s was made to feel agressive but really just makes the car feel like a gutless economy car. Need to go up a 1% incline? DOWNSHIFT! Ran over an ant? DOWNSHIFT! Driving through a neighborhood with almost no throttle input? Let's hold 2500rpm in D mode and make a bunch of noise.

It drives me mad.

Not sure how the ECU tune is on IS38s, but on IS20s they run a shitload of boost in the mid-range and then fall on their face.

Hmmmm...My APR TCU tune made quite a nice difference with daily driving for me. Is the IS38 TCU tune different that the IS20?

 

[Hoon]

Hmmmm...My APR TCU tune made quite a nice difference with daily driving for me.

Are you IS38? IS20 and IS38 are different TCU tunes.

I can't wait to get rid of mine. Unitronic was so much better.

 

[DP03]

Are you IS38? IS20 and IS38 are different TCU tunes.

I can't wait to get rid of mine. Unitronic was so much better.

Gotcha. I'm IS20.

 

[Diggs24]

Agree with SugarMouth.

Even stage 1 is a big bump, and a good DSG tune makes the car much better to drive and removes a lot of the annoying habits of the stock programming.

Personally I wouldn't go APR if I had any other option, as I find their TCU tune, and their dealer-centric business model quite annoying.

TCU tune for IS38s was made to feel agressive but really just makes the car feel like a gutless economy car. Need to go up a 1% incline? DOWNSHIFT! Ran over an ant? DOWNSHIFT! Driving through a neighborhood with almost no throttle input? Let's hold 2500rpm in D mode and make a bunch of noise.

It drives me mad.

Not sure how the ECU tune is on IS38s, but on IS20s they run a shitload of boost in the mid-range and then fall on their face.

I wonder if ED's DSG tune might be more to your liking. Mine almost never downshifts. You can see me go up grade on this drive.

https://www.golfmk7.com/forums/showpost.php?p=652237&postcount=12654

 

[DSMconvert1]

I'm sure your stock DSG tune is different than mine, but with an IS38 I was getting trans slip on pump gas with a slightly better than stock DSG tune.

Flashed back to stock TCU tune on E30 in the name of science and the slip was awful, definitely would have killed the trans if I kept driving it like that.

APR trans tune fixed the issue, although I don't like their trans tune, it's the best option when running Cobb.

If you go Cobb, go APR TCU. Other than that, use the TCU tune that matches the ECU. Uni ECU and TCU was a great combo when I was stock turbo, and I like Uni's TCU tune much better than APR, but unfortunately with Cobb it doesn't have enough clamping pressure. It's ultimately a Cobb problem, not a Uni problem.

How did you determine it was slipping ? Thank

 

[ChrisMk77]

I guess youre in Europe then i would go with tvs ecu/tcu tune.

 

[Hoon]

How did you determine it was slipping ? Thank

At first I could see irregularities on my logs, non-liners spots on the RPM curve. They weren't bad, only a couple hundred RPM above where it should have been. Could not be heard or felt.

When adding power, it could then be heard and felt, and the RPM graph started to get bulges.

 

[marc5800]

As mentioned by others.

I was stage 2 without a TCU tune. Big mistake ...

I think now companies are mentioning that it is strongly recommend to pair the stage 2 ECU tune with a stage 2 TCU tune

I was getting a boost dip (torque management issues). Basically, the OEM TCU had reached maximum tq value capacity and was limiting the boost from the ECU for a few seconds (specially going from 3rd gear to 4th gear where more boost is introduced)