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DSG to 6spd Conversion -- I'm going for it!!

ghost_03

Ready to race!
Location
Syracuse, NY
The Backstory
Meet FüFü, my 2006 United Gray Pkg 1 DSG GTI. I bought it "new" in 2007 with ~800 miles for a nice discount as they had used it as a test drive car to keep miles off their other GTIs. Over nearly a decade, I've put 137k on it, though it stopped it's daily-driver duties about 2 years ago.



And yes, it's named after the rabbit from the children's poem--my gf named it; her logic is that it's a cute vw rabbit but being a GTI meant it didn't always behave. I originally wasn't on board with that, but with the umlauts I came around and over time I've grown to embrace it.

I have a list of mods several pages that it has had over the years. I might detail them later in the thread but it's mostly your standard fare--several different suspensions, sway bars, exhausts, stoptechs, etc. I've since removed most of them for one reason or another in an effort to make the car more drivable. So now it's OEM Plus--only mods are K04, S3 injectors+intercooler, Eurodyne Maestro, VWR springs, and RS5 reps.

Buuut even though I'm not a huge fan of aftermarket, I still like to tinker. My next mod is going to be...OEM-sideways...OEM-minus if you check the options sheet. When I bought the car, I had wanted a stick, but went with the DSG because of the "test drive car" pricing. DSG is awesome, and for what it is, I have no complaints with it. It's probably the only part of the car that hasn't given me trouble. But I'm looking for a project and I always wanted it to be stick. There's plenty of threads with people asking about converting their DSG to stick for the same reason, and most of them end with practical and/or funny explanations about why it makes more sense to trade for one. I have absolutely no doubt that trading the car does make more sense. But trading doesn't give me a project, and would have me getting rid of a nicely sorted K04 car that I've grown attached to over 10 years of ownership. So last night I said F-it and started ordering parts to swap.

I'll use this thread to chronicle my progress and keep people in the loop. I of course welcome any advice or criticism along the way. For liability reasons I will say--this isn't a guide or DIY, and I make no guarantees or warranties that what I do is correct, workable, safe, etc., but I think it's an interesting enough project that I wanted to share. Thanks for reading and I hope this will be an interesting thread!
 
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ghost_03

Ready to race!
Location
Syracuse, NY
My Plan
I'm breaking this project down into three parts. Useful to me to manage the workload but also the large inventory of parts that I will be acquring. Those three are:

1. The transmission, flywheel, and actual clutch
2. The clutch pedal and hydraulics
3. The shifter, cables, and linkage.

Transmission, Flywheel, and Clutch
I use the Bentley a lot for reading about what to do. My plan is to do a conventional R&R, where the first 'R' is the 02E DSG and the second 'R' is an 02Q 6 speed. Of course, there's a multitude of parts that are different between them, and for that I've been spending a lot of time on the online version of ETKA, ECS Tuning, and Ebay junkyards. So far it looks like I will need:
-The 02Q (from a junkyard)
-New 6 speed axles
-Drivers side engine/transmission mount
-Clutch. I'm going to use a stock one. I know I know but I want to see how it does, and I intentionally have a low torque tune.
-slave cylinder
-All bolts transmission, clutch, flywheel, engine mount., and also including subframe which I will drop for access
-Connector for reverse sensor
-Other misc. fittings and/or bolts

Clutch Pedal and Hydraulics
-Pedal assembly incl. master cylinder and line to reservoir
-Clutch position sensor and connector
-firewall gasket
-clutch breather
-master -> slave cylinder fluid line
-6 spd pedal covers
-possibly a 6 speed brake pedal + hardware
-various gaskets, washers, and mounting brackets

Shifter and Linkage
-The shifter assembly, incl. gaskets and shift cables
-Shift knob and surround
-Shift linkage (going with the euro S3 short shift)
-Misc hardware associated

Other questionable parts
-I think a heat shield or two might be different
-I may get a 6spd steering wheel without the shift paddles
-Not sure about changing rear main seal while i'm in there. i hate to let it go but i also hate to replace a seal that isn't leaking.
-LSD. I feel like I should do that while I'm at it but kind of want to make sure the junkyard transmission isn't broken first.
 

ghost_03

Ready to race!
Location
Syracuse, NY
You'll also need to reprogram the ECU for the manual trans. Good luck, I did a manual swap to my saab wagon a few months ago

Thanks for the kind words. I'm hoping VCDS and/or Maestro will be enough to code the ECU. If not, backup plan is to replace with 6spd ecu/ignition/etc. Looks like there might be some other modules that communicate with DSG as well; I'm just playing wait and see for now.
 

flat tire

Go Kart Champion
Location
USA
Car(s)
Electric + 135i
I was gonna say if you just want a project you could add rods and a BT but it sounds like you're committed. I often fantasized about going the other way and putting a DSG in my manual jetta for the shifts and the extra attention you can put on driving. I get the need for a stick though, now that I don't have any I would like one. :thumbsup:

I'm hoping VCDS and/or Maestro will be enough to code the ECU. If not, backup plan is to replace with 6spd ecu/ignition/etc. Looks like there might be some other modules that communicate with DSG as well; I'm just playing wait and see for now.

That part shouldn't be too hard, it would be worse going the other way. If all else fails you can just get someone to put a 6MT rom on your ECU. Also, Maestro is limited, there have been thousands of maps defined for our ECUs now for a few years, all out in the open. It's a little more work to get all that but you will have control over more parameters.

About the LSD, have you considered welding the diff? I tigged the one in my bmw, there are some very minor compromises but for hard driving the grip and consistency cannot be beat. The other reason you might consider welding the diff is it's difficult and expensive to find a good (clutch type) LSD for the MKV. I can expand on the pros and cons of welding should you want to know more.
 

ghost_03

Ready to race!
Location
Syracuse, NY
I was gonna say if you just want a project you could add rods and a BT but it sounds like you're committed. I often fantasized about going the other way and putting a DSG in my manual jetta for the shifts and the extra attention you can put on driving. I get the need for a stick though, now that I don't have any I would like one. :thumbsup:


Lol I totally did consider rods and BT, that'd for sure be fun. Biggest problem for me is that I want max drivability for track days. I've spent more than a little time in Maestro reducing torque (but keeping top end power of course) to try and improve drivability. Something like a GT28RS would work well for me but would cost a lot for not much more power. If I were more like Lewis Hamilton I'd be able to handle FWD with a real BT...GT30, 35, etc. on a road course but alas I am not. Also, the e92 I'm dailying now is slushbox which makes me want a stick all the more.

About the LSD, have you considered welding the diff? I tigged the one in my bmw, there are some very minor compromises but for hard driving the grip and consistency cannot be beat. The other reason you might consider welding the diff is it's difficult and expensive to find a good (clutch type) LSD for the MKV. I can expand on the pros and cons of welding should you want to know more.

That's an interesting thought! I'm guessing it's probably not up my alley though--just like with the BT I'm more concerned with track days and inside-tire-fire. Still need some slip, just...well...limited lol. I've still got more to consider differential wise...probably will do stock for now and then throw in a LSD if I find a deal or need to do a clutch.
 

ghost_03

Ready to race!
Location
Syracuse, NY
Subd! I'm really hoping you stick with this dude! Eventually planning on swapping a 6spd manual into my racecar once the DSG gives up the ghost so I'm very interested to see how this plays out!

Oh I plan to for sure! Also props for sneaking my user name in, by intention or not lol.

At any rate, I spent a good part of this weekend planning everything out and ordering parts. See below for what my floor looked like while figuring out the wiring. With the Bentley to reference it actually doesn't seem that bad.


I've also got 4 orders into ECS for various parts and a stock clutch--one each for the three parts I'm splitting the job into and a 4th for all of the subframe bolts. I've done a few major repairs before and having a big pile of bolts with little more than P/N stickers to go on is a pain for me. This way, when I'm at a part of the project I open the relevant box and only have 1/4 the parts to sort through haha.

I've also ordered a few assemblies from ebay junkyards. It's nice because I can look at the pictures and see what they've pulled, often leaving ancillary parts so I don't have to buy quite so many new. Have the pedal assemblies and shifter assemblies on the way. Tomorrow I intend to pick up an 02Q with 80k on it from a '10 CC at a local junkyard.

Finally, I stopped at harbor freight this afternoon and picked up the two tools I'll need but don't have already--a transmission jack and an engine support bar.

 

GIACUser

Master Wallet Mechanic
Location
SoCal
That's an interesting thought! I'm guessing it's probably not up my alley though--just like with the BT I'm more concerned with track days and inside-tire-fire. Still need some slip, just...well...limited lol. I've still got more to consider differential wise...probably will do stock for now and then throw in a LSD if I find a deal or need to do a clutch.

While you have this apart (great project by the way) absolutely throw in an LSD, the difference at the track is dramatic.
 

xSabretoothx

Fast w/ training wheels
Location
Raleigh, NC
Car(s)
2008 GTI
Excellent, while you're doing all that work....you could swap in an AWD set-up from a Golf R, just sayin'
 

ghost_03

Ready to race!
Location
Syracuse, NY
While you have this apart (great project by the way) absolutely throw in an LSD, the difference at the track is dramatic.

Oh trust me I want to. My concern is that I might screw up the LSD install and think I've screwed up the swap or gotten a bad transmission. It'll be a lot more work to go back in, but if I go that route I could potentially save a lot of confusion.

xSabretoothx said:
Excellent, while you're doing all that work....you could swap in an AWD set-up from a Golf R, just sayin'

I....could. Gosh, this thread is full of tempting ideas. I considered this; the transmission and the rear end I think will drop in more or less OK. With the DSG->6spd of course I'll mostly be getting the car to be quiet about stuff it can't see. With an AWD I'd be trying to get the car to reliably communicate with a "foreign" haldex, and that is kinda scary.

And while I know AWD will help at the track and drag strip, my 328i is for-better-or-worse xDrive so I've got my rainy days and syracuse winters covered. Otherwise I'd be looking into renting a car hauler and checking auctions for crashed haldex cars lol.
 

xSabretoothx

Fast w/ training wheels
Location
Raleigh, NC
Car(s)
2008 GTI
If you get an ecu from a Golf R, it shouldn't be too much of a problem. You might want to see if there are any wrecked Golf Rs in your area...
 

ghost_03

Ready to race!
Location
Syracuse, NY
If you get an ecu from a Golf R, it shouldn't be too much of a problem. You might want to see if there are any wrecked Golf Rs in your area...

Closest I found was Long Island. That would work even though towing a car through NYC doesn't sound too fun haha. Unsurprisingly, salvage Golf Rs hold some serious value--the one in Long Island is a complete write-off and is selling for $5k. It would be totally awesome and I can't tell you how tempted I am to go for it, but ultimately if I had $5k to spend on that, adulting means I should probably put it into my house lol! :23:

eurocars said:
I have a 6 speed TT trans (for 4 motion swap) with an LSD already installed for sale...just sayin

I also know someone that needs a replacement 6 speed FWD trans if you wanted to sell yours to buy mine

Again...tempting. This thread is going right for my wallet haha! Not sure I want to deal with blocking off the prop shaft output until an appropriate rear end and prop shaft comes around, but I'll keep that in mind. What are you looking to get for it?

In other news...I took delivery of the 02Q from the junkyard this morning. Borrowed my mom's SUV as 1. they load on a pallet with a forklift and 2. I wasn't sure about that much weight as cargo in the golf. Paid $400 plus tax and core, not bad for 80k I think. Originally was going to have eat the full core, but when I told him I didn't have a replacement because I was swapping out an auto he told me that sounds awesome and cut the core in half. Also pleased that the shift linkage is still on it (though that won't stop me from putting on the S3 short shift!), as well as the mount-adapter-thing that goes between the trans mount and the trans. I think that was like $50 by itself, new.



Now I need to wait for some boxes to arrive! I've got everything I *think* I need ordered, except for the question mark items. I'm sure when I get into it I will find some things I've missed.
 
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