Downpipe on Stage 1

[Chumleepro3]

Ok, so after much searching I haven't found a direct answer. My car is stage 1 with Unitronic and I would like to put a downpipe on without going stage 2. Reason why is because I don't want the extra power!!...and extra wear and tear. I also don't want to have to buy a HPFP if I get fuel cuts. I remember seeing a chart for wastegate duty cycle on the uni stage 2 and it was 95% to redline vs Apr like 50%. Hind site I would get APR and go stage 2.

Now I know you can just slap a downpipe on and get an 02 spacer but in another breath I saw that 07GTI-2.0T said the following on a similar thread about APR stage 1 with a DP.


"Stage 2 is tuned leaner. The stock DP restriction causes more heat which requires stage 1 to be tuned richer to cool things down. This not needed on stage 2. Haven't heard this from APR but one would assume if you can go more aggressive on fueling, your probably going to do the same with timing.

3" DP can cause and overboost spike on boost onset if not tuned for it (most noted with GIAC's original FSI tune + 3" DP...when they only had one tune for all stages). stage 2's boost onset is tuned to work in harmony with a 3" DP."

But then also was said was..

"The difference in gain between stock and tuned has little to do with adaptation and mostly the fact that 20lbs of boost (tuned) benefits from a less restrictive DP way more than the same engine and turbo running 11lbs of boost (stock). Throw a DP on a stage 1 car (not tuned for a DP by definition of stage 1) and you've got 97% of what stage 2 has to offer (about 8 less wheel hp than a 230whp stage 2 car..and yes that's based on before and after dynos I've seen stage 1 tune with DP vs same car reflashed with stage 2)

Bottom line is the factory DP is so restrictive with its close coupled 1rst cat and pinched piping directly after an aftermarket DP significantly benefits ANY fsi/tsi stock or otherwise. Don't let tuners " stage" approach make you think our cars don't take to mods without a specific tune for every little bolt on They respond just like bolting on a DP to any other turbo car with restrictive factory DP."

So I'm confused...will it cause problems or not if I put a downpipe on my stage 1 car? :help:

 

[flat tire]

The tune will love a downpipe and so will you. Anyone who says different doesn't know what they're talking about. Go ebay / amazon for best value if you want catless, and you probably do. Pay like $150.

Here is the only downside to running a DP with stage 1:

You will get a check engine light for emissions due to the removed cat. You can (maybe) use a spacer, get tuned to remove the light, or deal with it and put the stock exhaust on when it's time to get inspected. Or you can just not get inspected, it's not that big of a deal if you pay attention and don't get pulled over.

 

[Chumleepro3]

Yeah in Alberta we don't have inspections, and I don't think anyone's gotten pulled over because of no cat here. I was looking at purchasing the 42dd catted non resonated DP, I was just worried about this "over-boost spike" that was mentioned.

 

[Goingnowherefast]

What extra wear and tear? Where have you seen a thread in which stage 2 software suddenly makes a mkv crazy unreliable? Not trying to be offensive at all truly, but any stage 2 tune is perfectly safe. There's a reason literally probably over half of the people on this board are stage 2 or beyond.

 

[Chumleepro3]

Not trying to be offensive, but how do you think the extra power is made? The engine and it subsequent components are pushed harder, which in turn leads to premature failure. I made the choice to go stage 1 as a cost vs benefits choice, more power but also a higher operating/maintenance cost. However with stage 2 its running even higher boost and also requires a greater multitude of supporting modifications in order to slow the rate of failure. This isn't a big deal for some but when trying to limit costs its naive to think that you can achieve more power without any ramifications.

 

[Goingnowherefast]

Not trying to be offensive, but how do you think the extra power is made? The engine and it subsequent components are pushed harder, which in turn leads to premature failure. I made the choice to go stage 1 as a cost vs benefits choice, more power but also a higher operating/maintenance cost. However with stage 2 its running even higher boost and also requires a greater multitude of supporting modifications in order to slow the rate of failure. This isn't a big deal for some but when trying to limit costs its naive to think that you can achieve more power without any ramifications.

I'm just telling you what I have seen and witnessed myself being apart of these forums for 4 years and have been stage 2 myself for 50K+ miles and 2 years. It seems you already have the answer set in stone in your head so why even post to get other peoples opinions?

There are no ramifications... This engine was built with a safety buffer as are many other engines. They aren't built to blow up when a car makes 201HP instead of 200... In our case our bottom end, and most of our other components are good until at least 350WTQ, and you will not be getting near that with stage 2. But what do I know right? Sorry if this sounded bitchy, it's been a long day at work

 

[Chumleepro3]

Ok I understand your perspective, I'm just saying that I don't want to have to spend more money to pay for higher octane gas (with lower mileage), pay for a hpfp, pay for the upgraded tune, pay for a upgraded dv, a pcv fix, and possibly more maintenance costs because of faster wear. I just wanted a louder exhaust setup. Sorry for being unclear, I am set in stone tuning wise, just wanted sound.

 

[Goingnowherefast]

Not a problem. Again I cant stress it enough that there are no extra hidden costs going stage 2 but if all you want is sound go for a cat-back. No tuning required or reccomended and you will get more sound going that way as well.

 

[fastwire]

iam installing my downpipe on monday or tuesday. I have it here!

at the time I will get flashed too, I can choose from stage 1 or 2, and of course, I gonna go stage 2 wtf. my car has 160k miles and rides wonders. cant wait really to get it flashed. the only downside, if ever, is its a catted dp, I wanted catless but for emisions .. had to go with high flow cat. if thats a con for power?

 

[flat tire]

One more thing is you may need stage 2 flash if you have fuel cuts. Stage 2 adjusts mixture and load to avoid cuts that can sometimes happen on stage 1 or older stage 2 files with downpipe.

As far as wear and tear goes, all the major tunes available leave plenty of headroom and still use stock safety features, which are numerous and powerful. Any increased "wear and tear" is more a result of how the car is driven and maintained. A stock ECU car driven carelessly and poorly maintained will wear much faster than a tuned car driven hard but given proper care and maintenance. The exception to this is cam follower wear with upgraded HPFP, which is unavoidable. Some oils like Rotella T6 inhibit the wear to a very large extent...maybe because they have a lot of zinc to assuage galling?

 

[fastwire]

oh yeah check your cam follower more periodically

 

[Goingnowherefast]

oh yeah check your cam follower more periodically

This ^ other than that I wouldn't even say fuel cuts are the only other thing that could happen. As unlikely as they are

 

[3In2Out]

If you are worried about wear and tear, stage 1 is putting the car under much more stress than the difference between stage 1 and stage 2.

Fwiw, I'm stage 2 at 121k miles and moving to stage 2+ next week. Car has been tuned for 100k miles or so.

 

[Chumleepro3]

Is it really a big difference with stage 1 + DP vs stage 2. I mean for unitronic its a $150 to upgrade...Also do you get clutch slippage with stage 2. I'm a student, trying to limit costs for now...:frown:

 

[lowmk5]

have a dp on my stage 1 and i felt a significant difference and it sounds sexy get it ull love it..:thumbup: