DarkX's Edition 30 DSG | Build Thread & Parts Review

[avenali312]

Sounds really, really awesome! :thumbsup:

 

[DarkX]

You expect to get 370 hp from that set-up without meth? I wish you luck, but I don't think you will hit that.

Well I'm running 9-6-9 on stage 2+ and 100oct RON at the moment and I'm going to attempt 9-7-9, hopefully with that I'll hit 370. If I was on custom tune I would bet you anything I would hit it and without w/m, it's a pretty standard number over here. But even on a ready-to-go tune such as Revo, I think with these settings it'll do the trick, or will be pretty close anyway. It's not like I'll be disappointed if I hit 365 to be honest. :smile:

Btw I've already gained around 3 cars in 50-130 mph roll compared to stage 1 that dyno'ed 322 hp, which is confirmed after several runs against the same car. I don't know how that translates to hp but I can't help but assume if I gain another car on 9-7-9 for a total of 4 cars, then 370 should be right around the corner. Anyway guess we're just gonna have to wait and see, thanks though. :thumbsup:

Sounds really, really awesome! :thumbsup:

Thanks, I'm excited :happyanim:

 

[DarkX]

Stage 2+ setting 9-6-9 (boost-timing-fueling) with the APR IC:

366 hp already from 6400 rpm (mind you I shift at 6800 when racing) and with such a power graph, I'm easily above 370 right now. Turns out my butt dyno was right, these 4 cars gain compared to stage 1 is a 50 hp increase. That being said, I'm not going to increase timing because for one, I pretty much got what I wanted, second, I can always get a DSG tune that pushes redline to over 7000 rpm and it doesn't take much to realize what that will mean power-wise. So I see no reason why I should go 9-7-9 and get out of the safe zone, especially when such a setting requires absolutely flawless 100 octane RON, anything short of that there will be cf everywhere. But 9-6-9 is strong and flexible enough, still requires 100 oct but no biggy if it's 99.5 :wink:

Next I'm getting a boost gauge, later full mounts and DSG tune.

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED.

 

[xSabretoothx]

Congratulations, but I'm a little confused by your dyno sheet. Is it saying you are 295 to the wheels?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[DarkX]

Thanks. You never look at whp on Maha dyno's, it's always a lot lower you just ignore it. I have read the reason is that they don't take the "brakes" into the equation, I'm not sure if I'm explaining it correctly in english. My power at wheels should be right about 325 whp with 12% drivetrain loss (if it's 12%).

 

[DarkX]

Here is a much better explanation, I would never be able to explain it so well.

Grey mate forget about the wheel figures on MAHA dyno's or ones like them.
It's not a wheel figure like you understand it to be.

MAHA dyno's don't estimate the drag they actually measure it.

The tyre sits in between two small rollers & deforms a lot which creates huge drag!
Also drag increases with rotational speed not constant like most people or dyno calculations would have you believe.

I use a MAHA dyno, you set it up like most other dyno's but at the end of the run you dip in the clutch & let it coast down which don't take long as it's a resistance dyno.
It measures the drag from the clutch back including the huge drag at the tyres & then takes that away from the measured power that was calculated from a variable resistance setting calculated & controlled by time, then it gives you a wheel power figure but more importantly a crank figure that is actually measured rather than guessed!

For wheel figures they are useless for comparisons.

For crank figures they are probably the best chassis dyno on the market.

The MAHA 4wd dyno was developed in partnership with Audi/VW for their quattro cars & is the only dyno they recommend their cars to be used on. Even has an instruction manual & part numbers from Audi.

Also BMW, Merc. Porsche & Ferrari use them at the factories to test the high spec cars that come off the production line to see if they are within spec.
Makes them the only dyno they recommend too!

The crank figure will be with in 2% Jurgen unless the operator made a mistake which it don't look like it to me.

To sum up
MAHA wheel figures are useless for comparisons, crank figures are ultra accurate & are proven to be.

(http://www.fordpower.org.uk/index.php?topic=10546.45)

 

[DarkX]

Here is the hoses that came with the APR IC kit that I forgot to take a pic of during installation:

1 of 4 clamps (bottom left) is not heavy duty like the rest because the original wouldn't fit, we needed a slightly bigger one. Since there weren't any available a normal one was fitted, but at least it's good quality. So far no issues with it.

And here is the video of my dyno run that I posted previously, I don't have much time to spend on my thread updates so they take a while :wink:

 

[DarkX]

Few quick shots after car wash (cell phone pics)

 

[juragan]

interesting...

 

[DarkX]

There goes my Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2nd set!

Now on to Toyo Proxes R888, pics first:

Front

Rear

That thing in my exhaust is moisture, I've just turned on the engine.

Couple more with the brakes.

Front

Rear

So I'm still bedding them in, I've done a little over 90 miles (they're only 8 miles on these pics, basically took these pics on my way back from the shop) and I have another 200 left before I get to see what these babies can do. They are very noisy, even more than my Cups but it's the kind of noise I like. I expect them to go a little quieter over time like my Cups did. Running 35 psi just like my Cups (2nd set).

Initially I was looking at Yokohama Advan 048, another kick ass tire. Turned them down because they weren't available at the time and meanwhile my Cups were on their way out. I also considered picking my 3rd set of Cups but they were also unavailable. And then it hit me, what about R888, I know these tires for a long time, seen them on other cars just never thought about getting them for mine.

So here they are, Toyo Proxes R888, same category as my Cups: racetrack and autocross semi-slick that is street legal. These have treadwear 100 (Cups 80), and same size 225/40/ZR18 and (92Y) but due to their pattern they look a little wider. Heard only great great things about their dry performance and I have the best things to say about the Cups, so I hope they perform just as good, or better! :wink:

 

[blkmaggtsp74]

R888 damn i bet they outloud your exhaust in noise lol i seem to remember their wet performance to be beyond horrible(in an older Civic)but I'm sure you already know that.
Nice build!

 

[DarkX]

Thanks! :thumbsup:

Yeah the Cups were also bad in wet (were standing water was present - otherwise they weren't too bad) and I expect the R888 to be just as bad, however their dry performance was unreal, so the R888 have a lot to do to prove themselves as a worthy successor for my car. They're also very noisy indeed, louder than the Cups, they sound like an aircraft propeller as it picks up speed, nothing is louder than my exhaust though :biggrin: But they should go a little quieter over time like my Cups did. Either way, this is my fun car, I have another car as a daily, so I can live with all these little cons.

 

[blkmaggtsp74]

Oh well, thought it was your daily first haha All good then!
A friend of mine has the cups on his Porsche 911 and yes rather loud but no biggie and nice grip when dry. Not so fun in the wet. I'm debating myself on what tires to get next for my Cupra. It's my daily so noisy tires are sadly a no-go for me.

 

[DerekH]

It's funny that you compare them to an aircraft propeller. I remember my friend comparing my NT01s in the same way. I've always wondered if the R888s were worth the money, looking forward to hearing your thoughts. I'm finding my RS-3s to be a good compromise for an all around tire, and no where near as terrifying when it gets wet out lol. Again same sentiment just wet is fine but standing water can be pretty sketchy.

 

[clownish]

It's funny that you compare them to an aircraft propeller. I remember my friend comparing my NT01s in the same way. I've always wondered if the R888s were worth the money, looking forward to hearing your thoughts. I'm finding my RS-3s to be a good compromise for an all around tire, and no where near as terrifying when it gets wet out lol. Again same sentiment just wet is fine but standing water can be pretty sketchy.

I love my RS3 tires. That sidewall is amazing.

 

[queen]

I have Neova's on mine.
Pretty great in the dry (very close to the R888s) and good in the wet.
My cupra is my DD so it's exactly what I wanted.

 

[DarkX]

Oh well, thought it was your daily first haha All good then!
A friend of mine has the cups on his Porsche 911 and yes rather loud but no biggie and nice grip when dry. Not so fun in the wet. I'm debating myself on what tires to get next for my Cupra. It's my daily so noisy tires are sadly a no-go for me.

I bet you have a 2nd set for the winter too :wink:

It's funny that you compare them to an aircraft propeller. I remember my friend comparing my NT01s in the same way. I've always wondered if the R888s were worth the money, looking forward to hearing your thoughts. I'm finding my RS-3s to be a good compromise for an all around tire, and no where near as terrifying when it gets wet out lol. Again same sentiment just wet is fine but standing water can be pretty sketchy.

I will most definitely write a review :smile: Those Nittos are semi-slicks too aren't they?

I have Neova's on mine.
Pretty great in the dry (very close to the R888s) and good in the wet.
My cupra is my DD so it's exactly what I wanted.

I have a feeling those Yokos will become popular in years to come

 

[DerekH]

Depends on what you call a semi slick i suppose they still had tread blocks, but not many of them. Id call them a semi slick but I'm not sure what the real definition is for semi slick. I dailyed them for a while, my drive to work was only like 10 km so i didn't really care a whole lot. they were fun lol. It will take a fair amount to get me to switch off the RS-3s at this point. Affordable and with the fact that i can even compare them to the performance of the NT01s was astonishing to me. I wont say that they are as good, but id at least call them in the same ball park.

 

[DarkX]

As always too busy to update, but better late than never right? :biggrin:

DSG tune installed, but before I come to that, here's my tire review...

Been 3 months since I put them on, done a couple thousand miles and what can I say, awesome tires, I am really, really satisfied and WILL definitely purchase again unless I have trouble finding them. Awesome dry grip, warm up incredibly fast which, to me, is probably their most important characteristic, dramatically reduced 2nd gear 40 mph wheel spin, I have also tried 1st gear roll, say 20 mph, still great, great grip, the only thing I haven't tried is launch control, which I will eventually. Incredible cornering, they went considerably quieter after the first thousand miles, which is nice, they're still loud enough to tell it's a track tire but nothing like the aircraft propeller I was talking about, it's an aircraft propeller with a silencer. Now I just have to wait and see how fast they wear.

Around mid-May I got my DSG tune installed. I went with Revo's stage 2 DSG tune which did the following:

- increased redline considerably, far more than advertised, I have seen 7600 rpms and was still climbing. Of course revving so high doesn't gain me anything, but as I'll show you later, I now have an extra few hundred rpms of usable power that does make a difference.
- manual mode doesn't automatically up-shift anymore, neither kicks down.
- shifting is now faster and it's enough to tell.
- increased launch control to 4000 rpms (from 3000 rpms) which is supposed to help with traction, though as I said before I haven't tried that yet.

Power wise, my peak power has probably slightly increased too since my last dyno, I'm still around 366 bhp but it was much hotter this time around, and even though Maha dyno's try to calculate that loss, it's never 100% accurate, you always lose power when it's hotter, but I didn't. I still dyno'ed 366.5 like my winter 366 bhp dyno. But the most important gain is the extra few hundred rpms of usable power thanks to the DSG tune.

That dyno is of May 6. If you compare that with my winter dyno you'll see I now have an extra 400 to 500 rpms of usable power, and it shows especially in 4th and 5th. Before the DSG tune I could only rev to 6800 rpms, and then I had to shift. Now that same power lasts much longer and apart from that, next gear comes in higher rpms. Many times I even have 1 gear less to shift, considering I now put 3rd at 70 mph instead of 60, 4th at 100 mph instead of a little over 90 etc. For instance, for a 60-125 mph roll I now shift just once and even that shift is faster. After studying the dyno and thoroughly testing the car, I have concluded my best shifting point is at 7200 rpms. Here's that extra 400 rpms of usable power. :wink:

Oh, about timing advance, I haven't changed settings I'm still 9-6-9 (like the dyno run) that works really well day and night, at over 90F, excellent logs. Tried 9-7-9 for a while at 90F and there were some cf. Though I'm pretty sure it would be fine late at night so I might get the SPS controller and store both settings so I can choose the one I want.

Other than that, sound has changed, after 7000 rpms the engine sounds sexy as fuck, I would say it sounds more raw, less refined, and as a result of faster shifting, dsg fart is incredibly loud, and I really mean loud, and don't get me wrong I fucking love it, but I also got a bigger cop magnet on my ass.

Now I gotta be honest, performance wise no it's not a night and day difference, it's not like when I installed my APR IC that instantly gained me enough timing thanks to lower intake temps to make an extra 24 bhp compared to stock IC (it's on previous page), but it's still noticeable. It's not the peak power itself, it really is how long it now lasts. And yet, if you asked me if that €500 I paid for my DSG tune was worth that kind of performance increase and sexy sound, I would say no, it was a lot of money for that kind of improvement, if I stopped here. But the thing is, I have bigger plans, next year I'm looking to go BT so I would have to get a DSG tune sooner or later, among other things.

These are a couple quick pics I took few days ago after car wash:

(that's queen's car in the back) :biggrin:

 

[xSabretoothx]

Looking great!! What's next on the list?