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Car jump starting

Maximum6

FASTER
Location
in heaven
Okay, so the Honda Accord battery died.

I try and jump start it with the GTI.

In this order:

Red on Positive of Dead car
Red on Positive of Live car
Black on Negative of Live car
Black on metal of Dead car.

This is the order the manual dictates.

I tried jump starting and it failed.


Then I placed the Black that was on the metal of Dead car onto the Negative.
Then the car was jump started.

What is up with this?

Why would the manual recommend jump starting the way I did it first, if I can't even jump the car?
 

pb4ugoout

Ready to race!
Location
Anderson, SC
I always just make sure the leads on the other side aren't touching, or have the other person hold them and just start clipping on to terminals. There's no process or this then that. Never had any trouble. I also never clip ground to anything other than a ground lug in the bay or right to the neg terminal. I'm going to guess that the metal you used as ground was painted or otherwise not suitable and thus it didn't work.
 

vath

Ready to race!
Location
east PA
Car(s)
2009 GTI
Dead batteries emit Hydrogen gas which is FLAMMABLE . Therefore you do NOT want to make the last connection (that can produce a spark) near the dead battery. I have had a "dead" car battery literally explode in my face while jump starting a car years and years ago. If I wasn't wearing sunglasses at the time I believe I would be blind now. The battery acid total disintegrated the shirt I was wearing that day (Hanes white cotton).

Advice:
BE SAFE
Always wear safety glasses.
Use a heavy-duty set of cables (I like 4 Gauge)
Keep both cars OFF, until after all connections are made.

1) Begin at the DEAD battery, lay one set (Black&Red connectors) of the jumper cable clamps on the floor so that the clamps will not come in contact with each other.
2) Connect the set that's still in your hands to the DEAD battery, Red to Positive(+) and Black to Negative(-).
3) Then pick up the other end of the jumper cables, one clamp in each hand as to not allow them to contact each other.
4) Connect this set to the GOOD battery/car, Red to Positive(+) and Black to bare metal or Negative(-).
5) Start the GOOD car and allow it to run for 30 seconds.
6) Try to start the other car, if it fails, then turn off good car and recheck connections. Repeat step 5. If other car successfully starts go to step 7.
7) Jumper Cable Removal: Turn off GOOD car, remove clamps from GOOD car and place on floor so they do not touch each other, remove clamps from DEAD battery.
 
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Maximum6

FASTER
Location
in heaven
i think you got it backwards,

all the manuals including the honda accord manual has:

+ on Dead car
+ on Live car
- on Live car
- on Metal of dead car
 

LilRaverBoi

Optometrist Prime
Location
Cedar Rapids, IA
Eh, I just put them on in any order...you just have to make sure if you connect +/- on the good car that the other ends of the cables don't touch or they will spark. Beyond that, I pay no attention to what car is attached onto first or whether I do positive or negative first.

I have been told that dead batteries can freeze and that if you try to jump a frozen battery it can explode. Never had this happen, but apparently it is possible.

Oh, and as far as the 'metal of dead car' goes, you have to have a good grounded point to jump off of....ie: unpainted metal or a point the car uses to ground the engine/wiring. If you don't want to do this, it's often just easier to use he negative pole than to find an adequate place to ground from on a lot of cars (much easier on old tractors :) ) You SHOULD see a spark when you connect the final connection. If you don't, one or more of your connections (or ground) is poorly connected.

If you're reading a manual to tell you how to jump start a car.....you might not want to be doing it.
 

vath

Ready to race!
Location
east PA
Car(s)
2009 GTI
i think you got it backwards,

all the manuals including the honda accord manual has:

+ on Dead car
+ on Live car
- on Live car
- on Metal of dead car

No actually I don't have it backwards, and your welcome.
My procedure reduces the risk of igniting the hydrogen gas that is emitting from the DEAD battery which keeps you safe and from having a much bigger problem on your hands.

I'd like to know where the Negative(-) clamps are dangling while Honda's procedure is connecting the Positive(+) clamps...
 

Maximum6

FASTER
Location
in heaven
No actually I don't have it backwards, and your welcome.
My procedure reduces the risk of igniting the hydrogen gas that is emitting from the DEAD battery which keeps you safe and from having a much bigger problem on your hands.

I'd like to know where the Negative(-) clamps are dangling while Honda's procedure is connecting the Positive(+) clamps...


my mistake, i think both of you are right
 
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SuperSkyline89

Das Schiesse
Location
Earth
Car(s)
2008 CW GTI
If you're reading a manual to tell you how to jump start a car.....you might not want to be doing it.

That's a very negative and defeatist thing to say. How else should someone learn how to do something other than read the manual, or search Google?
 

vath

Ready to race!
Location
east PA
Car(s)
2009 GTI
If you're reading a manual to tell you how to jump start a car.....you might not want to be doing it.

unfamiliarity can lead to unfortunate accidents... the manual does not explain the dangers involved (i'm almost certain).
 

LilRaverBoi

Optometrist Prime
Location
Cedar Rapids, IA
That's a very negative and defeatist thing to say. How else should someone learn how to do something other than read the manual, or search Google?
My intent was not to be a dick about it, but jumping a car is one of those super basic things with cars. I would compare it to reading a manual to change a tire or reading a manual to adjust your seat. Hell, even changing a tire involves tools. Not saying everyone doesn't have to learn somewhere, but I feel like this one is something your dad teaches you when you are 5 or a friend teaches you in high school.

And for the record, I feel like a google search or youtube is a better way to learn about it than the cars manual.
 

SuperSkyline89

Das Schiesse
Location
Earth
Car(s)
2008 CW GTI
unfamiliarity can lead to unfortunate accidents... the manual does not explain the dangers involved (i'm almost certain).

The word "might" just makes it passive aggressive instead of full on aggressive, either way it sends the same message.

My intent was not to be a dick about it, but jumping a car is one of those super basic things with cars. I would compare it to reading a manual to change a tire or reading a manual to adjust your seat. Hell, even changing a tire involves tools. Not saying everyone doesn't have to learn somewhere, but I feel like this one is something your dad teaches you when you are 5 or a friend teaches you in high school.

And for the record, I feel like a google search or youtube is a better way to learn about it than the cars manual.

Ya, the VW manual is literally useless in this matter. All it says regarding the battery is that the owner is too stupid to do anything without killing themselves or burning the car to the ground.

In principle it does sound like something simple you learn from your parents or someone but I find people apply that to a lot of car related things based solely on their own experience. My dad sure didn't teach me anything about cars, I bought my car when I was 23 not even knowing how to drive a manual. Everything I learned about cars was because of shop class in high school, coop at a Ford dealer, video games, and now the forums. Something as simple as swapping to my winter tires the first time was a learning experience because I had never worked on anything German, with the wheel bolts instead of nuts and hub centric setup.
 

Maximum6

FASTER
Location
in heaven
The word "might" just makes it passive aggressive instead of full on aggressive, either way it sends the same message.



Ya, the VW manual is literally useless in this matter. All it says regarding the battery is that the owner is too stupid to do anything without killing themselves or burning the car to the ground.

In principle it does sound like something simple you learn from your parents or someone but I find people apply that to a lot of car related things based solely on their own experience. My dad sure didn't teach me anything about cars, I bought my car when I was 23 not even knowing how to drive a manual. Everything I learned about cars was because of shop class in high school, coop at a Ford dealer, video games, and now the forums. Something as simple as swapping to my winter tires the first time was a learning experience because I had never worked on anything German, with the wheel bolts instead of nuts and hub centric setup.

Originally, I looked in the manual of the Honda accord to find out where to hook the Ground; because hooking the ground on top of the Suspension NUT in the engine bay like most people....it didn't work; and I already knew about the unpainted metal surfaces. The Honda accord manual dictated a specific place to hook the ground, and it differs from a few different models in the Accord Line.

Most youtube videos show the process that I stated in my 1st post which was to hook the ground onto the Metal of the Dead Car. However I have found 1 video of a guy who did it the other way, and hooked the ground onto the Metal of the Live Car.
 

yeahforbes

Go Kart Newbie
Location
NJ
Car(s)
2017 Golf R DSG
There are 2 risks, and each has a completely separate way to mitigate the risk. Unfortunately, in this thread we're clear on what I'll call risk A but there is not clarity on risk B.

Risk A: The spark ignites the hydrogen. Avoid this by ensuring that the final connection is away from a battery, especially the dead battery, by using a remote negative (unpainted metal) for that last connection. It doesn't matter a whole lot whether it's on the dead car or the live car as long as it's the last connection, although if we accept that any connection point could eventually spark (from adjustments, tripping over wires, etc.) then it's marginally better to make the dead one the remote negative. If there is no feasible remote negative on the dead car, go with the live car.

Risk B: Creating a short circuit across a battery. Avoid this by never having the clips at one end both loose while the clips at the other end are both connected. If you do have this situation, the loose ones could touch, creating a massive short circuit with no fuse inline to save you. You could argue that if your buddy is holding the end with 2 loose clips, he won't let them touch. Yeah, well what if he sneezes. And if they're on the ground, what if you kick them.

So there you have it. Everyone always thinks about (A) but forgets about (B). The "proper order" some people think is meaningless actually does solve (B). The order has nothing to do with being nice to the electrical system, since from an electrical standpoint there is no circuit until all connections are made. Think about it... if you make 1 connection at the first car, then 2 connections at the second car, then 1 connection at the first car, you cannot end up in situation (B). Live car first, dead car first, that has nothing to do with it, just remember 1-2-1.

It's only when you combine the two techniques for (A) and (B) that you end up with a definitive order. If you finish with the remote negative on the dead car, you start with the positive on the dead car to achieve 1-2-1. The combined procedure ends up being
1. Dead+
2. Live+/-
3. Dead remote-

Now there's one more small point, very small as it only matters when the vehicles are touching (via metal) and they shouldn't be anyway. In step 2, doing + before - is better. This minimizes the amount of time that you have a positive cable connected at one end and not the other. Why minimize this? Because you really don't want to drop the loose end of that cable onto any metal, or let it drag about uncontrolled while you only concentrate on the negative clip. Letting that positive clip touch metal on the second car will cause a short circuit on the first car, completed only because the cars are touching. Thus:
1. Dead+
2. Live+
3. Live-
4. Dead remote-

I think any arguments for deviating from this order are addressed in my post. Obviously the majority of this hinges on unlikely situations, but that's how being safe works.
 
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