GOLFMK8
GOLFMK7
GOLFMK6
GOLFMKV

Ask Me Anything: Lug Nut, Bolts and Wheel Locks!

MonkeyMD

Autocross Champion
I saw that. It was about a week too late. ?
 

flipflp

Autocross Newbie
Location
PNW
Car(s)
'16 Golf R DSG

I know Dan knows this, but those aren't wheel locks! Just because it uses a special socket doesn't make it locking or security. That is a Small Diameter lug bolt set, all 6-spline lug bolts with a thin wall spline socket. No special patterns or unique keys. Anything Gorilla calls a "wheel lock" means it has a special pattern on the lock and unique key that can't be purchased through a retailer by a part number.
 

VQVW

Ready to race!
Location
Oregon
Car(s)
2018 Alltrack SE 6MT
This is a super helpful thread. I just got an Alltrack and had no idea that VW uses lug bolts instead of studs and nuts. Coming from a Nissan, I assumed that all cars had studs. So if I wanted to switch to studs, do I need to worry about thread pitch or anything? I am looking at the ECS conversion kit. I'll get conical seat lug nuts and the Gorilla wheel locks look good. Just want to make sure I get the right length of studs. I may be using up to 10 mm spacers in the rear. It would be nice to have flush lugs, don't want them to stick out more in front, and I don't want to use open/tuner nuts. Seems like there are so many variables here...

I plan to use aftermarket wheels for both winter and summer sets, but if I did want to use an OEM or Neuspeed wheel, would that still work with the studs? I would just have to have a set of ball seat lugs for that wheelset? Thanks in advance!
 

VQVW

Ready to race!
Location
Oregon
Car(s)
2018 Alltrack SE 6MT
One more question: is there any concern re dealer service and warranty if I switch from lug bolts to studs and nuts?
 

flipflp

Autocross Newbie
Location
PNW
Car(s)
'16 Golf R DSG
There are quite a few posts on stud conversions in this thread, specifically because there are so many variables. Stud conversions are not something I recommend for individuals that don't have a fairly good understanding of wheels, lug nuts and fitment of those parts.

Our thread size is 14mm x 1.50 (1.50 is the thread spacing in metric).

My best suggestion for your needs would be to get an ECS kit and the ball seat lugs they recommend for the OEM wheels as well as conical lugs for aftermarket wheels. ECS's listings will state the thickness of spacers that can be used with the conversions to select the correct length for your needs. Their studs are a bullet nose so they will be longer than they need to be with the unthreaded portion at the top, if that is not the look you want then you might consider a more standard stud style that is fully threaded to the end of the stud.

As far as warranty, that is really up to your dealership. A stud conversion is not a permanent mod, but if warranty work specifically related to replacing the hubs on the vehicle, I could see a stud conversion raising questions. Some dealers are more mod friendly than others.
 

Raguvian

Autocross Champion
Location
Bay Area, CA
Car(s)
2019 GSW 4MO 6MT
I used a Urotuning stud conversion kit on my Sportwagen. They are a bit longer than needed but I wanted extra length to stack spacers if needed. They are super easy to use, just use some red threadlocker and torque them to ~20 ft lb. If I ever needed to take my car in for warranty work related to suspension or the hubs I'd just remove them and put the bolts back in.

FWIW I've also swapped wheels a few times and haven't had the studs come out either. I think I saw on FB someone had some issues with the ECS version coming back out and stripping.
 

flipflp

Autocross Newbie
Location
PNW
Car(s)
'16 Golf R DSG
I installed my ECS studs the same way you described, they definitely did not come out. When I replaced my front wheel bearings I actually couldn't get 3 out of the hub so I used standard bolts on my front wheels. Red loctite will do everything you need to do there.

If you want a more standard wheel stud from a brand name the H&R studs look nice and have pre-applied thread locker as well.
 

VQVW

Ready to race!
Location
Oregon
Car(s)
2018 Alltrack SE 6MT
Thanks for the advice. I'm not new to modifying cars, just new to European cars and finding this confusing as I'm trying to buy studs/lugs for my new wheelset. I obviously want to do this properly. I want a stock look and I don't track my car. The last thing I want is studs that stick out from the wheel, but most of the conversion kits have long studs with the bullet nose.

IIRC the stock lug bolts are 27 mm (is that a measurement of the threaded portion or the whole bolt?), so to get a stud/nut combo that is close to that, what length stud would I need? It should be simple math, but I don't know the length of the lug bolt thread that sits in the hub. Would the H&R 35 mm studs be pretty close? I would really like a stud that comes in 10 mm increments (H&R also has a 45 mm) so that I could run 10 mm spacers in the rear and have the lug nuts be exactly the same depth in the wheel.

I could also get lug bolts, but finding bolts and lug bolt locks that match is also not looking easy. How much leeway is there with the lug bolts? Gorilla's locking lug bolts only come in two sizes in 14 x 1.5 (50.8 and 57.2 mm). I'm not sure why Gorilla sizes these in imperial when every single modern spacer I've ever seen is metric, at least for Euro and Asian cars. So could I run the 50.8 in front with no spacer, and the 57.2 mm in the rear with a 10 mm spacer and have enough thread in the rear and not too much thread in the front?
 

flipflp

Autocross Newbie
Location
PNW
Car(s)
'16 Golf R DSG
If you don't want your lugs/studs to stick out past the wheel then something standard like H&R or the basic stud conversion from Motorsport hardware would be your best bet.

If you know you're always going to run a 10mm spacer in the rear, or you're going to run open end lug nuts so that without a spacer the stud can pass through the lug nut, you should probably go with the longer 60mm overall studs.

Conversion stud length needs to take into account how much threads into the hub (typically 12-14mm), then how much of the stud is used from brake rotor thickness, and then wheel thickness. Whatever stud sticks out from the wheel (from the base of where the lug seats) needs to be 14mm+, at least for the minimum thread engagement that is recommended. That should be engagement equal to the width of the stud, as a minimum. More engagement is fine, less can strain too few threads and cause stud failures.

With bolts, the threaded length is what you want to pay attention to, measured from the bottom of the bolt seat to the end of the bolt. The math on that length is the same as the stud, just in reverse. You need to pass through the wheel, brake disc, and then engage ~14mm of bolt threads in the hub (or around 9 turns). If you add a spacer, you have to add that same length to the threaded portion of the bolt. So an OEM length lug bolt is 27mm threaded length, with a 10mm spacer you'd want technically a 37mm bolt, but 40mm is likely going to be the closest you get. Overall bolt lengths are not important in this measuring, because every bolt manufacturer can be different in design for their bolts above the seat (taller hex, taller seat area, etc.).

Gorilla has always sized bolts with both metric and standard dimensions because not everyone is familiar with the metric system, even though lug bolt vehicles are entirely from countries that use the metric system. I agree it looks strange, and it might not be that way in the future :)
 

Oscar LaVista

Go Kart Newbie
Location
Mt Kisco, NY & Weeki Wachee FL
Car(s)
2018 GTI SE 6MT
If you use red loctite, the studs aren't supposed to be able to come out without using a torch. I would consider them disposable at that point. I'd probably use blue.
 

flipflp

Autocross Newbie
Location
PNW
Car(s)
'16 Golf R DSG
I'm planning on replacing my studs and nuts every year. It's an extra $100. Well worth the peace of mind IMO.
That is probably massive overkill, but if that makes you happy go for it! Unless there are issues with the threads, or something was over-torqued and stretched, these parts will last significantly longer than a year. No different than the factory bolts which don't have a recommended replacement mileage/time frame as far as I know.
 

Raguvian

Autocross Champion
Location
Bay Area, CA
Car(s)
2019 GSW 4MO 6MT
That is probably massive overkill, but if that makes you happy go for it! Unless there are issues with the threads, or something was over-torqued and stretched, these parts will last significantly longer than a year. No different than the factory bolts which don't have a recommended replacement mileage/time frame as far as I know.

I go skiing at least every other weekend, but living in the Bay Area I daily on summer tires, so I end up swapping to snow tires every time I ski. That's way more wheel swaps than average, plus my lug nuts already look kind of crappy from all the tightening/loosening action and snow driving, so I figure replacing everything once a year would be a good idea.

All that swapping was the main reason I went with studs, since studs make swapping wheels easier (wheels don't fall off and can be hung on studs) and so I'm not threading/unthreading into the hub every time I take the wheels off.
 

Ramon64124

Drag Racing Champion
Location
Kansas
Are the new Gorilla 10mm thick hub rings any good? I just ordered a set. I have a slight vibration at 70+ that comes and goes. I remedied it by using some tighter hub rings, but they aren't 100% tight on the wheels. Hoping the longer 10mm helps alleviate.
 

flipflp

Autocross Newbie
Location
PNW
Car(s)
'16 Golf R DSG
I go skiing at least every other weekend, but living in the Bay Area I daily on summer tires, so I end up swapping to snow tires every time I ski. That's way more wheel swaps than average, plus my lug nuts already look kind of crappy from all the tightening/loosening action and snow driving, so I figure replacing everything once a year would be a good idea.

All that swapping was the main reason I went with studs, since studs make swapping wheels easier (wheels don't fall off and can be hung on studs) and so I'm not threading/unthreading into the hub every time I take the wheels off.
Sounds good, you've gotta feel satisfied with your setup and treating these parts like wear items doesn't have a downside (y)
 
Top