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APR K04.. cold start sucks.. misfires.. help!

penance

Fakinsupa
Location
BC West Coast
Car(s)
GTI
So I recently went KO4 (existing Stage 2+ customer) - the following is everything that was done to the car:

INSTALLED:
-APR K04
-Runner Flap Delete
-APR K04 tune file + RFD software (confirmed with APR that the dealer did install both... I had to remind dealer about RFD prior to picking up, they forgot twice)
-S3 Injectors
-R8 Coil Packs
-Diverter Valve (Rev. D)
-NGK PFR7B Double Platinum Spark Plugs (.028" gap)
-Godspeed v2 Intercooler
-Carbon Valve Cleaning

EXISTING ENGINE MODS:
-Forge Twintake
-Forge catch can
-APR HPFP
-APR Downpipe

REPLACED (so far):
The battery was replaced last week, mine was old and due for it... APR support said that was step one trouble shooting. So I replaced it and it made no difference.


PROBLEM:
Cold start is hurting like a mofo, and I'm getting high RPM misfires.

On cold starts the engine struggles a bit to get going - misfires, skipping a step but catching itself on the next to get going (fails to start first try about 10% of the time). Once the engine is warm, and for a reasonable few hours after being turned off, you can start up without any hesitation.
(APR 91oct file)

When I put the car back into stock program mode, the cold starts were even worse! I'd liken it to the 2 days between installing all the hardware above, and getting APR dealer to install the K04/RFD tune. Starts harshly like I don't even have the RFD software present.

I plugged the ol' Vagcom in last night (while in 91 oct tune) and gave it a couple cold starts. Had a couple misfires, usually always across cylinders 1-3. Cylinder misfire pattern so far has been: 1-1-1-0, 2-2-0-0, 1-1-2-0, 2-2-1-0.

Once the car is running it seems to be okay, until you WOT... then it misfires quite a bit above 6000rpm.

I ran the APR Data Logs last night, and noticed today looking at them that none ever made it to 7200rpm like I see on others charts. It topped out at 64-6600rpm on most all logs, even though my needle was bouncing off the red-line on each run..
(Logs done in 3rd gear - 2am, 10 celsius, sea level. I don't have "Turbo" option on vagcom, so i changed the INT values to 25/0.)


QUESTIONS:
In the beginning, before looking at all into it, I figured it was a bad spark or coil. But if the misfires are not all focused on one particular cylinder that wouldn't be the case, correct?

I'm not getting any unusual instrument lights, and nothing out of the ordinary on Vagcom error scans.

What's the best measurement block combination to log for cold start problems?


DATA LOGS:
You can see all the logs I got last night, and my vagcom scan afterwards.
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0BzazITulD-5_Yy1GQVQ5M0YwekU&usp=sharing

I didn't know what would be the best values to graph, so I did a few from APR Log Diagnosis #5. Anything else is in excel format at the above link.

I'm not proficient in reading these logs, so I appreciate any MKVgearheads that can chime in. I'd really like to figure out if my coldstart/misfires are tune issue, or if the logs show a hardware issue.

I've had this tune for about 2.5 weeks now, and I am not at all impressed with this. Car ran and started fine prior to this upgrade.

Thanks! :thumbup:

 

defense05

Ready to race!
Location
Fort Lauderdale
Ugh, all I see are APR k04 misfire threads... Really wish I didn't go APR for my tune. Can't wait to change it.
 

defense05

Ready to race!
Location
Fort Lauderdale
But I don't wanna... It's so annoying having to take that thing off and on. Besides, I'm not misfiring anymore! I do have a nasty leak where my MAF sensor sits though. :(
 

GIACUser

Master Wallet Mechanic
Location
USA
Car(s)
MK 6 GolfR
So I recently went KO4 (existing Stage 2+ customer) - the following is everything that was done to the car:

INSTALLED:
-APR K04
-Runner Flap Delete
-APR K04 tune file + RFD software (confirmed with APR that the dealer did install both... I had to remind dealer about RFD prior to picking up, they forgot twice)
-S3 Injectors
-R8 Coil Packs
-Diverter Valve (Rev. D)
-NGK PFR7B Double Platinum Spark Plugs (.028" gap)
-Godspeed v2 Intercooler
-Carbon Valve Cleaning

EXISTING ENGINE MODS:
-Forge Twintake
-Forge catch can
-APR HPFP
-APR Downpipe

REPLACED (so far):
The battery was replaced last week, mine was old and due for it... APR support said that was step one trouble shooting. So I replaced it and it made no difference.


PROBLEM:
Cold start is hurting like a mofo, and I'm getting high RPM misfires.

On cold starts the engine struggles a bit to get going - misfires, skipping a step but catching itself on the next to get going (fails to start first try about 10% of the time). Once the engine is warm, and for a reasonable few hours after being turned off, you can start up without any hesitation.
(APR 91oct file)

When I put the car back into stock program mode, the cold starts were even worse! I'd liken it to the 2 days between installing all the hardware above, and getting APR dealer to install the K04/RFD tune. Starts harshly like I don't even have the RFD software present.

I plugged the ol' Vagcom in last night (while in 91 oct tune) and gave it a couple cold starts. Had a couple misfires, usually always across cylinders 1-3. Cylinder misfire pattern so far has been: 1-1-1-0, 2-2-0-0, 1-1-2-0, 2-2-1-0.

Once the car is running it seems to be okay, until you WOT... then it misfires quite a bit above 6000rpm.

I ran the APR Data Logs last night, and noticed today looking at them that none ever made it to 7200rpm like I see on others charts. It topped out at 64-6600rpm on most all logs, even though my needle was bouncing off the red-line on each run..
(Logs done in 3rd gear - 2am, 10 celsius, sea level. I don't have "Turbo" option on vagcom, so i changed the INT values to 25/0.)


QUESTIONS:
In the beginning, before looking at all into it, I figured it was a bad spark or coil. But if the misfires are not all focused on one particular cylinder that wouldn't be the case, correct?

I'm not getting any unusual instrument lights, and nothing out of the ordinary on Vagcom error scans.

What's the best measurement block combination to log for cold start problems?


DATA LOGS:
You can see all the logs I got last night, and my vagcom scan afterwards.
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0BzazITulD-5_Yy1GQVQ5M0YwekU&usp=sharing

I didn't know what would be the best values to graph, so I did a few from APR Log Diagnosis #5. Anything else is in excel format at the above link.

I'm not proficient in reading these logs, so I appreciate any MKVgearheads that can chime in. I'd really like to figure out if my coldstart/misfires are tune issue, or if the logs show a hardware issue.

I've had this tune for about 2.5 weeks now, and I am not at all impressed with this. Car ran and started fine prior to this upgrade.

Thanks! :thumbup:


Software alone may not be enough to overcome runner flap delete. My guess is you will end up putting runner flap back in to get rid of cold start issues.
 

defense05

Ready to race!
Location
Fort Lauderdale
My cold starts are kind of better now. The car immediately starts at 1000rpm and works it way down to 700-800 rpm a little quicker than before. Although, my car feels a little rough atm due to the air intake leak code I have.
 

penance

Fakinsupa
Location
BC West Coast
Car(s)
GTI
I don't have the stock intake anymore - will try it if i can borrow a friends.

Was mentioned on another thread, but figure I'll post here as well... my fuel filter was replaced 3 months ago.

The days with the RFD installed, but not yet tuned, that is how mine started... After the hesitation to start it would catch and sit in a 1000-1200 rpm idle for about 30sec, and then drop down into a 800rpm idle after about 60sec.

I just logged my cold starts tonight and it reacts nearly identical to RFD plugs with no tune -- just not as loud. Did 3 cold starts in a row - let each run for close to a minute. First time cylinder 1 and 3 misfired on every time stamp logged. Second time it was cylinder 3, and third try it was cylinder 4. (Will post those 3 logs in the same link from OP)

Can one f-ed up spark plug (or coil) mess up other cylinders and cause them to misfire?
If I had to order them as to how often I've noticed each one misfire, it would be 3-1-2-4 in that order. More often it is 3 and 1, sometimes 2, and rarely 4.

I have my old sparks/coils that I may throw in, but the sparks have quite a bit of build up on the tips so I don't think it's worth testing with them.

APR techs get all these logs emailed tonight, so hopefully they have something helpful for me tomorrow afternoon. Also going to call the dealer and have them re-flash from stock.

One guy asked why I'm using Platinum and not Iridium NGK's... I thought Platinum was the better choice (so said majority of forum posts I saw). HSTuning packaged the Platinums with R8 coils, as a FSI/TSI K04 upgrade. Might try Iridium's after I get some sort of response from APR. I don't know.
 

ina12K04gti

Ready to race!
Location
Broward County
I don't have the stock intake anymore - will try it if i can borrow a friends.

Was mentioned on another thread, but figure I'll post here as well... my fuel filter was replaced 3 months ago.

The days with the RFD installed, but not yet tuned, that is how mine started... After the hesitation to start it would catch and sit in a 1000-1200 rpm idle for about 30sec, and then drop down into a 800rpm idle after about 60sec.

I just logged my cold starts tonight and it reacts nearly identical to RFD plugs with no tune -- just not as loud. Did 3 cold starts in a row - let each run for close to a minute. First time cylinder 1 and 3 misfired on every time stamp logged. Second time it was cylinder 3, and third try it was cylinder 4. (Will post those 3 logs in the same link from OP)

Can one f-ed up spark plug (or coil) mess up other cylinders and cause them to misfire?
If I had to order them as to how often I've noticed each one misfire, it would be 3-1-2-4 in that order. More often it is 3 and 1, sometimes 2, and rarely 4.

I have my old sparks/coils that I may throw in, but the sparks have quite a bit of build up on the tips so I don't think it's worth testing with them.

APR techs get all these logs emailed tonight, so hopefully they have something helpful for me tomorrow afternoon. Also going to call the dealer and have them re-flash from stock.

One guy asked why I'm using Platinum and not Iridium NGK's... I thought Platinum was the better choice (so said majority of forum posts I saw). HSTuning packaged the Platinums with R8 coils, as a FSI/TSI K04 upgrade. Might try Iridium's after I get some sort of response from APR. I don't know.

I was hoping to hear how this turned out. I have had similar issues with my MK VI, apr k04 & v2 software. After replacing the hpfp, all four injectors, coilpacks & plugs, I'm still misfiring. This is extremely frustrating since my car has ran excellent for the better part of two years. K04 & all supporting mods done at 5K miles, now showing 19500k miles.
 

penance

Fakinsupa
Location
BC West Coast
Car(s)
GTI
I'm away on a business trip (w. car), but I haven't had time to troubleshoot more. It does seem to cold start better in the mountains, but not a cure.

APR wants me to pull the maf one morning and cold start it. They tried telling me it was my twintake, but I have fuel trims of .5% / 4.7% which is well within the norm.


Sent from my iPad using Crapatalk
 

penance

Fakinsupa
Location
BC West Coast
Car(s)
GTI
Haven't been around all month. But update on my weekend off before heading back out of town... unplugging MAF made zero difference, nor did installing a stock intake for the 2 days I had to drive her around.
 

Angel@forge

Go Kart Champion
Location
Orlando
Car(s)
06 A3 sport
Thanks for not just tossing the intake. Too many are very quick to blame them. I think as more time has passed some folks are realizing that though.
 

Kwiksilver07

Go Kart Champion
Location
Wisconsin
Car(s)
07 3dr reflex silver
cough* tune! cough*
 
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