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2020 FORMULA 1 SEASON

Supercrumpet

Ready to race!
Location
Georgia/South Carolina
Car(s)
'19 Alltrack SE 6MT
That's what I figured, just wanted to be sure.
 

CarlosCanizares

Autocross Newbie
Location
Surrey, BC, Canada
Car(s)
Mk7 Golf R
I do hope we get some more interesting two stop strategies for this weekend. If I'm honest I found the first Silverstone race to be really boring other than the first two and last two laps. Was great to see so many cars in the middle of the pack running so close together, but they pretty much all had DRS so nobody could move around and we just got a big train for 40+ laps.

Brundle once said an ideal race is 2.5 stops. I agree but I also think they should remove the two-compound requirement. If someone wants to go Hard-Hard (and 1 stop) or Soft-Soft-Soft (and 3 stops), let them be.
 

Supercrumpet

Ready to race!
Location
Georgia/South Carolina
Car(s)
'19 Alltrack SE 6MT
Brundle once said an ideal race is 2.5 stops. I agree but I also think they should remove the two-compound requirement. If someone wants to go Hard-Hard (and 1 stop) or Soft-Soft-Soft (and 3 stops), let them be.

I think that's worth trying at the very least. The requirement puts teams in an uncomfortable position sometimes to run something that might not be perfectly optimal, but more options usually make things more interesting for sure, and opens the possibilities for some teams to take a different gamble.
 

torga

Autocross Champion
Location
Seattle
Car(s)
'11 GTI
They got the book!!

https://www.racefans.net/2020/08/07/racing-point-points-deduction/

Also, never shared my thoughts on Sunday's GP...... WOW. What an amazing final 5 minutes. So much stress. Great first lap as well, actually. No one crashed, everyone was competitive, the camera crew did a great job with the cutting -- good action.
 

hans611

Lost
Location
Miami
Car(s)
'16 Golf R 6MT
Not really, the car isn't illegal... it wasnt even about the front brake ducts, it was the rears... Apparently they had bought the design of the rear ducts from merc with plans to use them last year but never did. (Remember they have been buying the rear suspension and gearbox from merc for several years already)

This year the FIA made them a listed part and RP ended up using them for their merc copy... Problem is listed parts may only be designed by the entering team, they cant be bought... And in this case, the fact is they bought a listed part from mercedes and ran it...

That was the insider knowledge Renault had from an ex Racing point engineer, they figured that out...(If they had used them last year, or copied them only from photos, everything would be fine.) Other than that, they probably have nothing else or else they would have brought it up already.

The 15 points is basically what the FIA determined was an appropriate penalty considering the advantage they gained by copying the rear break ducts (and freeing up resources by doing so)

They are also allowed to continue running them as the FIA determined that if they do re-design them there is no way to un-learn what they had from the merc so they will just be given a warning each race...

They are most definitely getting away with it... but supposedly the FIA is trying to come up with a solution to prevent this for next time...I dont get it bc at the same time the FIA/F1 are releasing this open source system of listed parts they had in mind for 2021 where they can share designs to lower costs....

Its totally natural to copy in F1, this is just the first time since the 90s they copy a whole car

edit: oh and its 7.5pts per car deducted from the team, not the drivers, and apart from the warning they do get fined $200k per car
 
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torga

Autocross Champion
Location
Seattle
Car(s)
'11 GTI
Not really, the car isn't illegal... it wasnt even about the front brake ducts, it was the rears... Apparently they had bought the design of the rear ducts from merc with plans to use them last year but never did. (Remember they have been buying the rear suspension and gearbox from merc for several years already)

This year they became a listed part and they ended up using them for their merc copy... Problem is listed parts run may only be designed by the entering team, they cant be bought... And in this case, the fact is they bought a listed part from mercedes and ran it...

That was the insider knowledge Renault had from an ex Racing point engineer, they figured that out...(If they had used them last year, or copied them only from photos, everything would be fine.) Other than that, they probably have nothing else or else they would have brought it up already.

The 15 points is basically what the FIA determined was an appropriate penalty considering the advantage they gained by copying the rear break ducts (and freeing up resources by doing so)

They are also allowed to continue running them as the FIA determined that if they do re-design them there is no way to un-learn what they had from the merc so they will just be given a warning each race...

They are most definitely getting away with it... but supposedly the FIA is trying to come up with a solution to prevent this for next time...I dont get it bc at the same time the FIA/F1 are releasing this open source system of listed parts they had in mind for 2021 where they can share designs to lower costs....
Its totally natural to copy in F1, this is just the first time since the 90s they copy a whole car

To my understanding, RP bought the Merc part before it officially became listed.
It is natural to copy, within reason, in F1. But if they wanted to copy the whole car, they should've go run in IndyCar. There's a reason teams are formally called "constructors" in F1 -- they're supposed to construct mostly original designs. They can definitely get inspiration from other constructors, but it seems like RP got carried away.

It's like my time in Formula SAE -- we were allowed to purchase pre-designed components like engines, transmissions, and coilover suspension because there's no way a college team of mechanical engineering students would be able to design reliable, in-house built components like that in a cost-effective way. But we were absolutely expected to originally design the rest of the car -- we couldn't just go to the university down the street and buy their car to copy. If we couldn't prove our design to be original, we'd be docked major points at the design competition, or even disqualified.
The F1 teams only buy engines in order to reduce the cost of entry, but they aren't supposed to blatantly copy.
 

Supercrumpet

Ready to race!
Location
Georgia/South Carolina
Car(s)
'19 Alltrack SE 6MT
The thing I'm just kind of lost on is what precedent this set or where the line is drawn for future cases. Specifically, what this means Red Bull might try to get away with for AT in the coming years.
 

hans611

Lost
Location
Miami
Car(s)
'16 Golf R 6MT
Yes they had bought the design of the rear ducts from merc with plans to use them last year but never did....

The issue is there is evidence of Mercedes selling them the plans last year...

And there is evidence of them running those ducts this year... which are a listed part.

Had they never bought the plans last year and just copied them like they copied the fronts from pictures, it would have been fine...

Let me just clear that up.... They already bought everything you could from Merc for a few years now, gearbox, rear suspension... engine

Seems it progressed to the rear ducts as well.... and then hell why not the whole car lol
 

torga

Autocross Champion
Location
Seattle
Car(s)
'11 GTI
The thing I'm just kind of lost on is what precedent this set or where the line is drawn for future cases. Specifically, what this means Red Bull might try to get away with for AT in the coming years.
They won't, because the FIA is going to more or less close this loophole now.
 

Supercrumpet

Ready to race!
Location
Georgia/South Carolina
Car(s)
'19 Alltrack SE 6MT
They won't, because the FIA is going to more or less close this loophole now.

That's the impression I've gotten, but where are they drawing the line on what can be copied and how? What are they doing to try to make this a black and white sort of ruling in the future?
 

CarlosCanizares

Autocross Newbie
Location
Surrey, BC, Canada
Car(s)
Mk7 Golf R
Dear Lawrence Stroll,

If you’re replacing a good driver with a better one, please do it again to your son and Nico.

Racing Point will be taken seriously, I promise.

Sincerely,
A fellow Canadian
 

torga

Autocross Champion
Location
Seattle
Car(s)
'11 GTI
Dear Lawrence Stroll,

If you’re replacing a good driver with a better one, please do it again to your son and Nico.

Racing Point will be taken seriously, I promise.

Sincerely,
A fellow Canadian
P3! P3! He was putting in some killer laps.
 

CarlosCanizares

Autocross Newbie
Location
Surrey, BC, Canada
Car(s)
Mk7 Golf R
Hmmm...softer tires rendered my sleepless night irrelevant. More of that, please.
 
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