2019 FORMULA 1 SEASON

[CarlosCanizares]

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/reason-vettel-punished-canada/4461461/

Interesting! Would like to see that onboard.

 

[CDM MK7]

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/reason-vettel-punished-canada/4461461/

Interesting! Would like to see that onboard.

Same.

Some big speculation going on from the track stewards on that one. I dunno, I say if you're getting in to the realm of trying to reconstruct what was going on in someone's head while they were making split second decisions in a dangerous situation like this, you're chasing ghosts. Would love to see some data on how much grip loss a tire incurs by going over the grass, and how much time it takes to retain an acceptable grip level where it will react accurately to steering input ... since they considered his second steering input to be deliberate and in complete control.

Also the mirror issue ... they said he looked in his mirrors - how are you ever going to confirm he SAW Hamilton in them? Maybe he was doing the right thing and trying to spot him so he could rejoin the racing line safely? Is it possible he couldn't spot Hamilton in the moment? Impossible to prove.

I'd say if you can't be 100% sure, then it's no penalty. Speculation shouldn't be a part of the equation.

Preaching to the choir, I know. I'm not even a huge Ferrari guy.

 

[CarlosCanizares]

Same.

Some big speculation going on from the track stewards on that one. I dunno, I say if you're getting in to the realm of trying to reconstruct what was going on in someone's head while they were making split second decisions in a dangerous situation like this, you're chasing ghosts. Would love to see some data on how much grip loss a tire incurs by going over the grass, and how much time it takes to retain an acceptable grip level where it will react accurately to steering input ... since they considered his second steering input to be deliberate and in complete control.

Also the mirror issue ... they said he looked in his mirrors - how are you ever going to confirm he SAW Hamilton in them? Maybe he was doing the right thing and trying to spot him so he could rejoin the racing line safely? Is it possible he couldn't spot Hamilton in the moment? Impossible to prove.

I'd say if you can't be 100% sure, then it's no penalty. Speculation shouldn't be a part of the equation.

Preaching to the choir, I know. I'm not even a huge Ferrari guy.

I completely agree with you.

I'm a Lewis fan and I don't need to tell you how many times he's done the same to Nico.

But as Button and Brundle were debating, had that been an open track with lots of run-off room, prolly wouldn't even be an issue. But in a street track with walls... Regardless, I still don't agree with the call.

In other news, apparently, Ferrari didn't tell Charles of Seb's penalty LOL.

 

[BlueHen]

If you guys DVR'ed the race, they did a great onboard on ABC after the podium celebration. Karoon (sp?) the Indian-looking fellow broke it all down frame by frame on his interactive screen.

Bottom line is that as Vettel came over the red and white curb after sliding in the grass, it kicked the rear of his car into oversteer and he naturally corrected right. IMHO, he gained control as fast as humanly possible and did not deliberately go any further right than necessary to regain control.

And I'm a big Hamilton fan, so no pro-Seb bias in that assessment.

Here's a real good super slow view of Seb's hands: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4It-I2NOzV8

 

[95gto]

I would agree that proving Seb intentionally drifted out to block Hamilton after completely regaining control of his car is a game of pure speculation. However based on Seb's own words over the radio, he didn't slow down while to trying to re-enter the track because Hamilton would pass him if he did. To me this proves he made a decision that definitely impacted how he came back on track. And he did come back on in an unsafe manner due to the type of circuit they were on and the traffic around him, intentionally or not.

I think a 5 second penalty was excessive but given the emphasis placed on penalty consistency I get why they did it. Had it been my call I would have said Vettel should yield the position to Hamilton and then let them battle it out to the end of the race.

 

[CarlosCanizares]

I would agree that proving Seb intentionally drifted out to block Hamilton after completely regaining control of his car is a game of pure speculation. However based on Seb's own words over the radio, he didn't slow down while to trying to re-enter the track because Hamilton would pass him if he did. To me this proves he made a decision that definitely impacted how he came back on track. And he did come back on in an unsafe manner due to the type of circuit they were on and the traffic around him, intentionally or not.

I think a 5 second penalty was excessive but given the emphasis placed on penalty consistency I get why they did it. Had it been my call I would have said Vettel should yield the position to Hamilton and then let them battle it out to the end of the race.

Charlie, reincarnated?

 

[pcpayne]

F1 fan here.
Since we are speculating, VET not penalized on track (loss of position) for ‘leaving track while defending’ but HAM is, since he cannot pass without running into wall. I agree yield position then overtake on straight out of hairpin.
If there was grass or paved runoff to the right instead of wall, HAM able to pass while going 4 wheels off track,
what is your decision?


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[Mike-E]

I'll be the loyal opposition to most here. I think the penalty was fair. I would disagree with the penalty, if SEB had: lifted off the throttle when he saw he was leaving the track and feathered he brakes when he reentered the track. Listening to the in car video, he did neither. He kept his foot in the accelerator with obvious results.

 

[CarlosCanizares]

I see both sides of the story. And I'm starting to agree with the penalty.

It comes down to this: Seb made a[nother] mistake and he paid the price. Was the price (5s penalty) fair? No. He should've yielded the place like 95GTO said.

Hamilton fan comment alert:
This wouldn't be an issue if he just didn't choke so much LOL.

 

[armedferret]

Well at least the stewards were consistent regarding the Vettel controversy 2 weeks ago with Ricciardo this week.

Although in fairness, if they don't want people going off-track, maybe not making the off-track portions wide enough for a car to get through at speed would be the appropriate measure to take. Wonder if they'll move the wall closer to the track to avoid that issue in future races.....

 

[CarlosCanizares]

Well at least the stewards were consistent regarding the Vettel controversy 2 weeks ago with Ricciardo this week.

Although in fairness, if they don't want people going off-track, maybe not making the off-track portions wide enough for a car to get through at speed would be the appropriate measure to take. Wonder if they'll move the wall closer to the track to avoid that issue in future races.....

What, there was a race last Sunday? LOL...most boring race I've seen despite Lewis winning.

Currently, if a pass happens with all 4 wheels outside the white line, it's invalid. personally, if there's a wall, driver's won't go 100% on it for fear of hitting.

I'd rather it be like Paul Ricard or Bahrain where there's no wall and we can see some wheels half off passing. Just me personally.

 

[armedferret]

What, there was a race last Sunday? LOL...most boring race I've seen despite Lewis winning.

Currently, if a pass happens with all 4 wheels outside the white line, it's invalid. personally, if there's a wall, driver's won't go 100% on it for fear of hitting.

I'd rather it be like Paul Ricard or Bahrain where there's no wall and we can see some wheels half off passing. Just me personally.

It was a race as soon as they told Lando he couldn't use DRS.

Don't get me wrong, I loved that action on the last lap. But Danny was waaaaaaaayyyyyy in the wrong lol. I 100% love his attitude about it afterward, basically "if they're going to make the track that wide I'm going to use it whether there's a white line or not." And I agree that if they don't want drivers going outside track limits, there needs to be an actual physical limit to the track rather than just some paint on the asphalt. Otherwise expect things like Ricciardo being Ricciardo.

It was definitely boring up front, but it's quite obvious that, despite all my love for him (and I have plenty, he's a super cool dude and obviously a HELL of a driver), Seb probably needs to think about packing it in. He's had a string of bad-car luck recently, no doubt, but you can tell the passion just isn't there anymore. Or if it is, he's not showing it. Red Bull Seb was a whole different animal, much more of a spark in his eyes. It ain't there anymore.

That said, what the hell kind of future is Charles LeClerc building for himself? That kid's gonna be a multiple world champion. No doubt about it. I can't wait to see what he does the next few years. Ferrari would be RETARDED to let him go when his contract is up.

 

[CarlosCanizares]

Lando is among the ones to watch along with Max and Charles once the 80's kids (Lewis, Seb, Daniel, Valteri...etc) get old or retire.

Let's hope Austria's a better watch.

 

[armedferret]

Lando is among the ones to watch along with Max and Charles once the 80's kids (Lewis, Seb, Daniel, Valteri...etc) get old or retire.

Let's hope Austria's a better watch.

Agreed on all fronts.

Max especially now that he's *MUCH* more mature and grounded. He was fun to watch when he was hotheaded, but i'd be willing to bet you put him in one of those silver cars and watch him say see-ya....still a lot of season to go of course and anything can happen; Toto mentioned having to do the equivalent of open-heart surgery on the cars at the last two races so who knows. hate to see a repeat of last year for them though, you never wanna see one team win just because another can't compete.

 

[95gto]

There's still hope for this season to be exciting, however Ferrari is going to have to dig deep to fix or at least mitigate their tire woes in order to do it.