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The COVID19 SCAMdemic... Biden Moves To Outlaw Acorns, Limit Squirrel Immigration

Escape Hatch

Autocross Champion
Location
USA
Car(s)
Mk7 GTI
Incredibly ironic that a company so out of touch with its own negative effects is calling itself meta.
Indeed it is, just goes to show how un-meta they truly are.
 

MagicMK

Drag Racing Champion
Location
PA
What you clearly leave out is that gas prices tend to rise as the US economy does well. If gas price go too high, then they hamper the economy. Low gas prices are often a sign of problems. As obvious examples, after 9/11/2001, gas prices were really, really low! Surprise. Also, the Bush Admin saw the practical destruction of the US and world economy due to the collapse of Mortgage Backed Credit Default Swaps (CDO's)... there's a movie and book about it if you're interested. Yeah, gas prices were low after that as well, but to Obama's credit, and the the heavy injection of TARP funds, the economy ended up roaring back in 2011 - 2013... and things remained relatively well in 2014 - 2016 as well. Economy was not too hot and not too cold. Also, the gas prices under Trump were actually fairly reasonable given the super charging of the US economy in at least 2019 due to the tax cuts. In 2020, though, obviously we had COVID and a oil contracts were selling less than $0 for a period of time due to the lack of any demand due to mass lock downs.
 

npace

Autocross Champion
Location
Netherlands
What you clearly leave out is that gas prices tend to rise as the US economy does well. If gas price go too high, then they hamper the economy. Low gas prices are often a sign of problems. As obvious examples, after 9/11/2001, gas prices were really, really low! Surprise. Also, the Bush Admin saw the practical destruction of the US and world economy due to the collapse of Mortgage Backed Credit Default Swaps (CDO's)... there's a movie and book about it if you're interested. Yeah, gas prices were low after that as well, but to Obama's credit, and the the heavy injection of TARP funds, the economy ended up roaring back in 2011 - 2013... and things remained relatively well in 2014 - 2016 as well. Economy was not too hot and not too cold. Also, the gas prices under Trump were actually fairly reasonable given the super charging of the US economy in at least 2019 due to the tax cuts. In 2020, though, obviously we had COVID and a oil contracts were selling less than $0 for a period of time due to the lack of any demand due to mass lock downs.
I didn't leave anything out. I showed you a picture because when I type and link actual references, you either try and change the argument or make statements that the references are garbage. The picture illustrates that the price of gas was not, in fact, lower under Obama.

And trying to play off the "not too hot, not too cold" economy of the Obama years as a good thing is silly. Remember when Obama was selling year over year 2% GDP growth as a good thing and "the new normal"? Ridiculous, in part because GDP growth for 8 years under Obama was 1.64% a year, so he was rounding up to the "good" number of 2.

The Troubled Asset Relief Program was approved by Congress in October of 2008, while Bush was still in office. Multiple rounds of QE (which was really printing money to cover debts) was a FED program. Contrary to what a lot of people think, the FED is not a government agency or part of the government, its a group of independent banks that have a board of directors who are theoretically accountable to Congress. I say theoretically, because virtually nobody in Congress actually understands what the FED does and so they all typically side with the FED regardless of what the FED does or says.

Because of this theoretical accountability, the FED calls itself an "independent government agency" but that's at least disingenuous because they don't operate under the rules and regulations required of any other government agency. They are self-funded through interest on acquisitions, so it becomes difficult, and almost impossible for the government to hold them accountable. Do something out of line, and the government might go after one or two board members, but the banks continue to do what they want.

All of that is to say, I'm not really arguing with anything you said here, other than the idea that Obama (or any President) has a lot of influence on the economy and is therefore responsible. They play a part, and in that respect, your dream about the Obama years being some kind of economic era we should long for is misguided. But people are fickle, and when the economy is bad, they blame the easiest person to blame. Let's go, Brandon!
 

npace

Autocross Champion
Location
Netherlands
What you clearly leave out is that gas prices tend to rise as the US economy does well. If gas price go too high, then they hamper the economy. Low gas prices are often a sign of problems. As obvious examples, after 9/11/2001, gas prices were really, really low! Surprise. Also, the Bush Admin saw the practical destruction of the US and world economy due to the collapse of Mortgage Backed Credit Default Swaps (CDO's)... there's a movie and book about it if you're interested. Yeah, gas prices were low after that as well, but to Obama's credit, and the the heavy injection of TARP funds, the economy ended up roaring back in 2011 - 2013... and things remained relatively well in 2014 - 2016 as well. Economy was not too hot and not too cold. Also, the gas prices under Trump were actually fairly reasonable given the super charging of the US economy in at least 2019 due to the tax cuts. In 2020, though, obviously we had COVID and a oil contracts were selling less than $0 for a period of time due to the lack of any demand due to mass lock downs.
Also, when you say oil contracts, I assume you're talking about futures. Is that what you're talking about, or are you talking about something else?
 

MagicMK

Drag Racing Champion
Location
PA
Also, when you say oil contracts, I assume you're talking about futures. Is that what you're talking about, or are you talking about something else?
Yes.

NEW YORK (Reuters) - U.S. crude oil futures collapsed below $0 on Monday for the first time in history, amid a coronavirus-induced supply glut, ending the day at a stunning minus $37.63 a barrel as desperate traders paid to get rid of oil.
 

Escape Hatch

Autocross Champion
Location
USA
Car(s)
Mk7 GTI
What you clearly leave out is that gas prices tend to rise as the US economy does well. If gas price go too high, then they hamper the economy. Low gas prices are often a sign of problems. As obvious examples, after 9/11/2001, gas prices were really, really low! Surprise. Also, the Bush Admin saw the practical destruction of the US and world economy due to the collapse of Mortgage Backed Credit Default Swaps (CDO's)... there's a movie and book about it if you're interested. Yeah, gas prices were low after that as well, but to Obama's credit, and the the heavy injection of TARP funds, the economy ended up roaring back in 2011 - 2013... and things remained relatively well in 2014 - 2016 as well. Economy was not too hot and not too cold. Also, the gas prices under Trump were actually fairly reasonable given the super charging of the US economy in at least 2019 due to the tax cuts. In 2020, though, obviously we had COVID and a oil contracts were selling less than $0 for a period of time due to the lack of any demand due to mass lock downs.
Laws of supply and demand. I certainly believe the amount of oil we had pumping into markets not long ago in conjunction with low demand dropped prices. Biden came in, reduced US output and people started driving again. If Biden cared about fuel prices he would drive oil production again as Trump did prior. This, in theory, would reduce fuel prices as oil supply would increase and more closely align with demand.
 

anotero

Autocross Champion
Location
Hither and thither
Car(s)
Mk7 GTI
Laws of supply and demand. I certainly believe the amount of oil we had pumping into markets not long ago in conjunction with low demand dropped prices. Biden came in, reduced US output and people started driving again. If Biden cared about fuel prices he would drive oil production again as Trump did prior. This, in theory, would reduce fuel prices as oil supply would increase and more closely align with demand.

Brandon's a career politician with pockets full of money. He doesn't care about anuthing but serving the interests of the financial elite. He can go fuck himself.
 

MagicMK

Drag Racing Champion
Location
PA
I didn't leave anything out. I showed you a picture because when I type and link actual references, you either try and change the argument or make statements that the references are garbage. The picture illustrates that the price of gas was not, in fact, lower under Obama.

And trying to play off the "not too hot, not too cold" economy of the Obama years as a good thing is silly. Remember when Obama was selling year over year 2% GDP growth as a good thing and "the new normal"? Ridiculous, in part because GDP growth for 8 years under Obama was 1.64% a year, so he was rounding up to the "good" number of 2.

The Troubled Asset Relief Program was approved by Congress in October of 2008, while Bush was still in office. Multiple rounds of QE (which was really printing money to cover debts) was a FED program. Contrary to what a lot of people think, the FED is not a government agency or part of the government, its a group of independent banks that have a board of directors who are theoretically accountable to Congress. I say theoretically, because virtually nobody in Congress actually understands what the FED does and so they all typically side with the FED regardless of what the FED does or says.

Because of this theoretical accountability, the FED calls itself an "independent government agency" but that's at least disingenuous because they don't operate under the rules and regulations required of any other government agency. They are self-funded through interest on acquisitions, so it becomes difficult, and almost impossible for the government to hold them accountable. Do something out of line, and the government might go after one or two board members, but the banks continue to do what they want.

All of that is to say, I'm not really arguing with anything you said here, other than the idea that Obama (or any President) has a lot of influence on the economy and is therefore responsible. They play a part, and in that respect, your dream about the Obama years being some kind of economic era we should long for is misguided. But people are fickle, and when the economy is bad, they blame the easiest person to blame. Let's go, Brandon!

That graph you posted was designed to make it appear as though Obama, a Democrat, lead to higher gas prices. So, whatever your intention was with that graph... to me, it really doesn't mean all that much. Presidents, in general, don't have all too much to do with world oil prices... at least not given the rise of China. Now, that said, to the extent you want to blame disasters such as 9/11 and the economic market collapse around 2008 on any one president, then yes, you could say that the president was responsible for lower gas prices, but did so by helping to trigger economic calamity. Otherwise, again, oil prices are set mostly by OPEC and the US as one of the worlds largest consumers and producers of oil does have an effect on world prices... but it's much less significant than many realize. The world oil prices don't give a flying fuq who the US President is.

The Federal Reserve is a somewhat independent govt agency, but US Presidents choose the people on the board, which are confirmed by Congress, so it's not totally independent. It also gets its money from the US Treasury, which prints money, so I'm not sure where you get the Fed Reserve is a "group of independent banks." Please show me where you got that.... because the Fed sets policy and the Fed lends to private/independent commercial (ie - not govt) banks, but the Fed is most certainly a US Govt entity that gets its money from the US Treasury. As much as Jamie Diamond would like to think he controls the Fed... the Fed decides US monetary policy and it sets the "Fed Funds Rate" that banks use to determine lending rates.

All of the above said, as far as oil prices are concerned, again, other than preventable disasters (such as 9/11 and the market crash in 2008 due mostly to Republican deregulation that did not reign in greedy private bank and investment house CEOs) the US Presidents don't have all too much too do with world oil prices. Now, that could of course change if people like Mitch McConnel get their way and try to fund future tax cuts by placing more and more burden on the middle class by increasing the federal gas tax (currently 18.3 cents per gallon) to pay for US roads rather than using federal taxes (that are paid more heavily by the rich). That's the crazy thing about the Republican shell game... so many Republican voters don't even realize that Republicans want to cut FEDERAL taxes (again, the wealthier pay more of the FEDERAL tax burden) which would deprive the US Govt of ever more tax money to fund US transportation costs and then offload the burden on individual (middle class) Americans that would then end up supporting much more of the tax burden for US infrastructure. I mean, Republicans (middle class ones at least) won't even admit that their own party is trying to fuq them!
 
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