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TT/S3 alloy arms & swivels Thread

laurent.d

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
FRANCE
Car(s)
A3 TFSI DSG S-line
I’m considering of fitting on my car TT alloy arms, ball joints and alloy swivels bearing.

But all information about those modification are a bit confuse and scattered, so below you’ll find an overview of what I understood reading several tread:

http://sd-2.archive-host.com/membres/up/125116343455940179/Service_Training_Audi_TT.pdf

TT arms are about 6mm longer than GTI/A3 ones and TT ball joint have oblong shape holes which provide 6mm more to play around.

TT arms are also 1,8kg each lighter than GTI/A3 ones.

All together TT arm and ball joint give at the minimum set up 1,6° negative camber and at the maximum set up 2,4° of negative camber.

Parts numbers are:

1- Lower control arm:
Amount required=2 total, 1 per side
Part number=8J0 407 151 D

2- Bolt to attach lower arm :
Amount required= 2 total, 1 per side
Part Number=N 101 410 03

3- Ball Joints:
Amount required= 2 total, 1 per side
Part number= 8J0 407 365 (LEFT SIDE), 8J0 407 366 (RIGHT SIDE)

4- Ball Joint bolts:
Amount required= 6 total, (3 per side)
Part Number= N103 320 02

5- Ball Joint Lock Plates:
Amount required= 2 total, 1 each side
Part number= 8J0 407 175 (176)

But about the swivels, I don’t know if I go for TT ones or S3 ones.

I would like to use TT ones as they provide higher rolling center and Audi A3 race car use them for Nürburgring 24H race.

But, if they seem to look very similar, according to Service Training Audi TT file, TT swivel bearing widen the track of about 13mm each side.

And specific TT track rod outer joint have to used too.

Parts numbers are:

S3 parts number : 3C0 407 253 F replace 257 F
3C0 407 254 F Replace 258 F

TT parts number : 8J0 407 253 D
8J0 407 254 D

Can anyone confirm that TT swivel widen the track or not?
Because it seems that TT arms already widen the track from about 6 to 12mm.

Every comment or further information are welcome.
 
Last edited:

fuscobal

Go Kart Champion
Location
Romania
2,3deg of negative camber on max position for me !
 

bostonaudi

Go Kart Champion
Location
Charleston, SC
Car(s)
1995 BMW M3
There are other threads with quite a bit of data already. Read the Audi TT Technical Bulletin, it should answer all your questions.

Someone else posted some findings on TT swivel bearings, it appears the TT tie rods aren't compatible. You may even have to swap the steering rack. And yes you will have wider track unless you swap in GTI wheel bearings. In Canada a company called H2Sport will have a direct replacement swivel bearing for Mk5 GTI with higher roll center feature. They won't be alloy but should still be excellent improvement on traction.

http://www.golfmk5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=123479
 

laurent.d

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
FRANCE
Car(s)
A3 TFSI DSG S-line
Thanks bostonaudi,

I've read all those treads, but didn't realy find the answers or at least it's not clear enought for me.

About what I understood, Audi TT outer tie rod ends do not thread onto the GTI inner tie rod ends, but may we should also change inner tie rod end, I don't think steering rack are so much different.

Are you sure that its TT bearing which widen the track and not the swivel?
 

bostonaudi

Go Kart Champion
Location
Charleston, SC
Car(s)
1995 BMW M3
Thanks bostonaudi,

I've read all those treads, but didn't realy find the answers or at least it's not clear enought for me.

About what I understood, Audi TT outer tie rod ends do not thread onto the GTI inner tie rod ends, but may we should also change inner tie rod end, I don't think steering rack are so much different.

Are you sure that its TT bearing which widen the track and not the swivel?

No, I'm not sure on where the wider track is really coming from, you might want to PM the guy in the other thread as he made some attempt to fit them. It was stated the bearing assemblies can be swapped. It's really hard to know without having the parts on the floor and seeing what actually is what.

I haven't taken the tie rod off my car, but typically the inner tie rod end threads directly onto the rack and isn't separable from the tie rod itself. If the inners aren't the same my guess is you'll be looking at a new rack. And if the TT rack isn't compatible with the GTI's steering input shaft or it has a different bolt pattern to the subframe.... see where I'm going? The H2Sport unit will be plug'n'play. C'est tres bien!
 

laurent.d

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
FRANCE
Car(s)
A3 TFSI DSG S-line
It's really hard to know without having the parts on the floor and seeing what actually is what.

Yes that's the problem!
And here in France if you by parts you can't give it back or change it for an other on.

I haven't taken the tie rod off my car, but typically the inner tie rod end threads directly onto the rack and isn't separable from the tie rod itself. If the inners aren't the same my guess is you'll be looking at a new rack. And if the TT rack isn't compatible with the GTI's steering input shaft or it has a different bolt pattern to the subframe.... see where I'm going? The H2Sport unit will be plug'n'play. C'est tres bien!

For me and according to the Service Training Audi TT file, steering rack are barely the same.
Tie rod are usualy in too parts with a ball joint in the midle.

Outer TT/GTI rod are different because GTI track rod is iron while TT are alloy. And then TT thread have to be bigger as alloy is ''softer''.

I'm not considering H2Sport swivel, Or I go fot TT arms and swivel or TT arms and S3 swivel.
 

shortysclimbin

New member
Location
S. Burl Vermont
The oem gti/ a3 inner rods are 310mm long with a thread of 16x1.5mm and the TT ones are 202mm long with the same thread size.

The steering racks are indeed different with the TT one sitting 7mm lower than the A3 or GTI one, but the subframe and bolt location should be the same. To change this out you would need to do a log of work though, including reprogramming the ecu to accept the different gear ratios and motor.

If anyone has more info on the A3 hubs and TT hubs that would be great. I am trying to source cheaper prices on these parts.
 

bostonaudi

Go Kart Champion
Location
Charleston, SC
Car(s)
1995 BMW M3
The oem gti/ a3 inner rods are 310mm long with a thread of 16x1.5mm and the TT ones are 202mm long with the same thread size.

The steering racks are indeed different with the TT one sitting 7mm lower than the A3 or GTI one, but the subframe and bolt location should be the same. To change this out you would need to do a log of work though, including reprogramming the ecu to accept the different gear ratios and motor.

If anyone has more info on the A3 hubs and TT hubs that would be great. I am trying to source cheaper prices on these parts.

Scroll down this page, has pic showing alloy swivel bearing (spindle). The OP says they are TT. But the ball joint is mounted on top of the arm, which is more like S3. TT is supposed to go under it.

http://www.golfmk5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69882&page=25
 

bostonaudi

Go Kart Champion
Location
Charleston, SC
Car(s)
1995 BMW M3
Passats do have aluminum arms, but not adjustable setup like TT. Swapping for Passat would be purely weight saving.
 

shortwave360

dub junkie
Location
Seattle, WA USA
Car(s)
'08 GTi 6MT
The H20 sport kit is the way to go from all my own research as well. I decided to not tear into the steering to just gain 6mm IIRC of track width. I mounted the ball joint underneath the control arm and this thread is boring without some pics...


 

bostonaudi

Go Kart Champion
Location
Charleston, SC
Car(s)
1995 BMW M3
The H20 sport kit is the way to go from all my own research as well. I decided to not tear into the steering to just gain 6mm IIRC of track width. I mounted the ball joint underneath the control arm and this thread is boring without some pics...

I mounted ball plate on top of my TT arms (same configuration as the original GTI arms/ball joints), which also results in the nuts being on top (otherwise you're sinking the nuts into the aluminum arm itself). I don't think they should be mounted like the TT unless you have TT or those long promised H2Sport spindles with the lower mounting point, then plate would go on bottom of arm. Its not a big deal just make sure you tighten the control arms at vehicle height so no bushing binding.

I got -2.0 on both sides at minimum camber setting.
 
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