bRett 32
Ready to race!
- Location
- Redwood City, CA
Hi all - I've been reading these forums for quite some time, but finally had some worthwhile info to post so I wanted to share. Thought this would be more 'at home' there than on the Vortex since it doesn't involve airbags or BBS RS wheels with rainbow centers.
Thanks to all those here for the huge library of useful info and feedback you've contributed here - I haven't replied to any threads, but I've used a ton of the info I've found here.
on to the review.............
I have seen some discussion on the forums about some of the Whiteline offerings for the MKV platform but couldn't find much feedback from people who are using their stuff and wanted to offer my thoughts and a before and after 'review' for those with any interest.
Background
The parts were installed on an '08 4dr 6spd GTI, it was completely stock prior to the install. I bought the car to use entirely as a commuter/dog hauler but after driving it for nearly a year decided to make a couple small upgrade to remedy a handful of the car's few deficiencies. In the past I've thrown parts on cars based on prior knowledge, the reviews of others, or simply because I assumed they would improve some aspect of the car I thought was lacking. With this car, because the mods will likely be minimal and I'm looking for maximum improvement for the dollar I decided to take the car to the track completely stock to get a feel for what I liked and what could use some improvement.
This is my 3rd VW following a pair of MKIV R32s, I'm not an expert in automotive performance parts, nor am I a driver of great natural talent. That said I have owned and modified quite a few cars, done a good amount of auto-crossing and probably 20 track days with a number of different cars, so I do have some helpful background to try to give some decent feedback.
The Parts
I installed the following:
Whiteline Anti-Lift/Caster Kit (KCA316)
Whiteline Bushing Kit - front control arm/front bushing (W0503)
Whiteline Bushing Kit - rear trailing arm/front bushing (W0504)
Whiteline 24mm Adjustable Rear Sway Bar (BWR20XZ)
Before - Stock Impressions
There are probably a few hundred reviews of the stock GTI strewn across the interweb so I'll keep it brief. A couple weeks ago I took the car to a Redline event at Buttonwillow with some good friends to see what it drove like stock.
In the first few laps of the first session I was very impressed, my group started at a pretty reasonable pace and it was my first time at Buttonwillow so I was in no hurry either. I trailed a new GTR for 3 or 4 laps running at probably about '6/10ths' and found the car pretty neutral, very composed and had no trouble keeping pace with the more capable car in front of me.
In the second session the pace was significantly quicker and a few shortcomings started to become apparent. I began having a hard time getting power down exiting the tighter corners, and also had a really hard time getting the rear end of the car to rotate. The car would dive substantially under braking, but worse was the 'squat' under acceleration that seemed to be increasing the understeer issues substantially. Trying to accelerate out of corners the car would begin to push wide and as I got on the gas it took significant weight off the inside front tire further limiting traction. I thought body roll was fairly well controlled, but there seemed to be a ton of compliance in the front end that made it difficult to maintain a nice tidy line through the corner if I was carrying any speed. The faster I went the more understeer I would get. The brakes didn't completely give up, but their power wasn't very inspiring, and as they'd build heat the pedal would get quite soft and they seemed to 'go away' some.
The Remedy
I drove home from the track somewhat discouraged. It had been a long time since I had driven a FWD car hard, let alone at the track and thought the car would need lots of parts to be both capable and entertaining. Or that it was better left alone, and the search for a second 'fun' car needed to be accelerated. I read the forums a lot more than I post on them and ran across a lot of info by Dan GSR and others on golfmkv.com and did some searching of my own and decided I'd allocate some bucks to trying to improve the car's handling but make sure to keep it a docile daily driver. I decided to try out Whiteline Flat Out's assortment of parts for the MKV. I decided on front and rear sway bars, the WALK (Whiteline Anti-Lift Kit), and their front control arm bushings, and rear trailing arm bushings.
I talked to my friend Aaron (FlyinFinn@Streetwerke) and told him what I was thinking about doing. He suggested I ditch the front bar, but was eager to check out something new and different and offered his skills for the install.
Installation
I considered to do a DIY for the parts I chose, but after the install I decided against it. Provided you have the equipment its very straight foward. You NEED a hydraulic press for the control arm and trailing arm bushings - or at a minimum a vice and a good amount of creativity. A lift is always nice but assuming you can get a decent amount of ground clearance on some very sturdy jackstands it could be done that way too. The front control arm bushings are a very tight fit so they need some elbow grease to get back into the inner control arm mounts so be sure the car is very stable/steady however you have it lifted. We took a pretty lazy approach to the install, stopping to chat, take pictures, and Aaron had some other customers stop by while he was working on the car. All-in I'd say he spent less than 4 hours on everything allowing some time to re-check everything throughout the install.
After - The Review
Finally getting around to the aftermath. The first thing I noticed backing the car out of Streetwerke's shop was the completely different feel to the front end of the car. There was a very solid feeling and overall sharpness that wasn't present with the stock parts in place. A quick spin around the block made it clear that the car was improved. The car seemed to have a better 'on center' feel, a little more steering effort, and a much tighter and more direct feel to the front end.
I've driven the car now for about 3 weeks with the Whiteline parts installed. I intended to get back to the track ASAP while the stock impressions were still fresh in my mind but haven't been able to get away from work and house projects. I have taken a few spirited drives though the mountains and I'm very impressed. The stock car was fairly capable at safe-on-public-roads speeds, but the Whiteline parts have made for a much more nimble feel when changing directions. The car doesn't 'flop' from one side to the other in transitions. Much of what I was blaming on less-than-stellar factory tires seems to have been the OE bushings and their ride-quality bias. The car simply takes a set quickly in corners and holds a clean tidy line with virtually no correction. I've very eager to get it back to the track. I think the additional confidence and precision will make a huge difference, and the huge reduction in squat will help keep the front tire contact patches in touch with the pavement.
The rear sway bar performs as expected, but in conjunction with the new feel and manners of the front end make for a great balance and eager feel. Stock the car felt over burdened by its weight, and the front end seemed to be just dragging the back end around (which it is) - now the front and rear seem to have much more 'harmony' and the car as a whole feels significantly more lively.
I have not yet installed the front sway bar, but will do so either when R-compound tires become part of the recipe, or the subframe has to come down for a downpipe or dogbone mount.
The best part about the collection of parts I added to the car are the lack of trade-offs. Often performance parts have side effects that take away from the enjoyment of the car you added the parts to. The front bushings do transmit some 'tire rumble' into the cabin between 20 - 25mph that can cause some of the already buzzing MKV plastic dash pieces to do so even more, but beyond that I haven't noticed anything. When I had the car aligned the shop that aligned it noted some 'cupping' on the tires from what they suspected was a bad OE alignment (the car has 14K on it, no damage, no curb altercations, and was on its original alignment when the Whiteline parts were installed). They blamed the uneven tire wear for the noise, and I'm sure it does add to it, but the bushings do transmit some additional noise within that window of speed (20-25mph).
In Short
For those that don't want to read all of my rambling above
The Good:
- Huge improvement in feel
- Sharper front end, far less slop
- Less roll, squat, and dive
- A more lively handling balance.
- Bang for the buck, even with the install cost this is made a large positive change to the car
The Bad
- Some additional 'tire rumble' in the cabin between 20-25mph
- May not be an easy DIY install if you don't have the tools
The Verdict
- A set of mods I'd gladly do again, make a great deal of difference, and have virtually no side-effects. Can't wait to get back to the track.
More pictures to follow, and I will update the thread once I get the car back to the track.
Please feel free to post any questions/concerns/etc.
Thanks to all those here for the huge library of useful info and feedback you've contributed here - I haven't replied to any threads, but I've used a ton of the info I've found here.
on to the review.............
I have seen some discussion on the forums about some of the Whiteline offerings for the MKV platform but couldn't find much feedback from people who are using their stuff and wanted to offer my thoughts and a before and after 'review' for those with any interest.
Background
The parts were installed on an '08 4dr 6spd GTI, it was completely stock prior to the install. I bought the car to use entirely as a commuter/dog hauler but after driving it for nearly a year decided to make a couple small upgrade to remedy a handful of the car's few deficiencies. In the past I've thrown parts on cars based on prior knowledge, the reviews of others, or simply because I assumed they would improve some aspect of the car I thought was lacking. With this car, because the mods will likely be minimal and I'm looking for maximum improvement for the dollar I decided to take the car to the track completely stock to get a feel for what I liked and what could use some improvement.
This is my 3rd VW following a pair of MKIV R32s, I'm not an expert in automotive performance parts, nor am I a driver of great natural talent. That said I have owned and modified quite a few cars, done a good amount of auto-crossing and probably 20 track days with a number of different cars, so I do have some helpful background to try to give some decent feedback.
The Parts
I installed the following:
Whiteline Anti-Lift/Caster Kit (KCA316)
Whiteline Bushing Kit - front control arm/front bushing (W0503)
Whiteline Bushing Kit - rear trailing arm/front bushing (W0504)
Whiteline 24mm Adjustable Rear Sway Bar (BWR20XZ)
Before - Stock Impressions
There are probably a few hundred reviews of the stock GTI strewn across the interweb so I'll keep it brief. A couple weeks ago I took the car to a Redline event at Buttonwillow with some good friends to see what it drove like stock.
In the first few laps of the first session I was very impressed, my group started at a pretty reasonable pace and it was my first time at Buttonwillow so I was in no hurry either. I trailed a new GTR for 3 or 4 laps running at probably about '6/10ths' and found the car pretty neutral, very composed and had no trouble keeping pace with the more capable car in front of me.
In the second session the pace was significantly quicker and a few shortcomings started to become apparent. I began having a hard time getting power down exiting the tighter corners, and also had a really hard time getting the rear end of the car to rotate. The car would dive substantially under braking, but worse was the 'squat' under acceleration that seemed to be increasing the understeer issues substantially. Trying to accelerate out of corners the car would begin to push wide and as I got on the gas it took significant weight off the inside front tire further limiting traction. I thought body roll was fairly well controlled, but there seemed to be a ton of compliance in the front end that made it difficult to maintain a nice tidy line through the corner if I was carrying any speed. The faster I went the more understeer I would get. The brakes didn't completely give up, but their power wasn't very inspiring, and as they'd build heat the pedal would get quite soft and they seemed to 'go away' some.
The Remedy
I drove home from the track somewhat discouraged. It had been a long time since I had driven a FWD car hard, let alone at the track and thought the car would need lots of parts to be both capable and entertaining. Or that it was better left alone, and the search for a second 'fun' car needed to be accelerated. I read the forums a lot more than I post on them and ran across a lot of info by Dan GSR and others on golfmkv.com and did some searching of my own and decided I'd allocate some bucks to trying to improve the car's handling but make sure to keep it a docile daily driver. I decided to try out Whiteline Flat Out's assortment of parts for the MKV. I decided on front and rear sway bars, the WALK (Whiteline Anti-Lift Kit), and their front control arm bushings, and rear trailing arm bushings.
I talked to my friend Aaron (FlyinFinn@Streetwerke) and told him what I was thinking about doing. He suggested I ditch the front bar, but was eager to check out something new and different and offered his skills for the install.
Installation
I considered to do a DIY for the parts I chose, but after the install I decided against it. Provided you have the equipment its very straight foward. You NEED a hydraulic press for the control arm and trailing arm bushings - or at a minimum a vice and a good amount of creativity. A lift is always nice but assuming you can get a decent amount of ground clearance on some very sturdy jackstands it could be done that way too. The front control arm bushings are a very tight fit so they need some elbow grease to get back into the inner control arm mounts so be sure the car is very stable/steady however you have it lifted. We took a pretty lazy approach to the install, stopping to chat, take pictures, and Aaron had some other customers stop by while he was working on the car. All-in I'd say he spent less than 4 hours on everything allowing some time to re-check everything throughout the install.
After - The Review
Finally getting around to the aftermath. The first thing I noticed backing the car out of Streetwerke's shop was the completely different feel to the front end of the car. There was a very solid feeling and overall sharpness that wasn't present with the stock parts in place. A quick spin around the block made it clear that the car was improved. The car seemed to have a better 'on center' feel, a little more steering effort, and a much tighter and more direct feel to the front end.
I've driven the car now for about 3 weeks with the Whiteline parts installed. I intended to get back to the track ASAP while the stock impressions were still fresh in my mind but haven't been able to get away from work and house projects. I have taken a few spirited drives though the mountains and I'm very impressed. The stock car was fairly capable at safe-on-public-roads speeds, but the Whiteline parts have made for a much more nimble feel when changing directions. The car doesn't 'flop' from one side to the other in transitions. Much of what I was blaming on less-than-stellar factory tires seems to have been the OE bushings and their ride-quality bias. The car simply takes a set quickly in corners and holds a clean tidy line with virtually no correction. I've very eager to get it back to the track. I think the additional confidence and precision will make a huge difference, and the huge reduction in squat will help keep the front tire contact patches in touch with the pavement.
The rear sway bar performs as expected, but in conjunction with the new feel and manners of the front end make for a great balance and eager feel. Stock the car felt over burdened by its weight, and the front end seemed to be just dragging the back end around (which it is) - now the front and rear seem to have much more 'harmony' and the car as a whole feels significantly more lively.
I have not yet installed the front sway bar, but will do so either when R-compound tires become part of the recipe, or the subframe has to come down for a downpipe or dogbone mount.
The best part about the collection of parts I added to the car are the lack of trade-offs. Often performance parts have side effects that take away from the enjoyment of the car you added the parts to. The front bushings do transmit some 'tire rumble' into the cabin between 20 - 25mph that can cause some of the already buzzing MKV plastic dash pieces to do so even more, but beyond that I haven't noticed anything. When I had the car aligned the shop that aligned it noted some 'cupping' on the tires from what they suspected was a bad OE alignment (the car has 14K on it, no damage, no curb altercations, and was on its original alignment when the Whiteline parts were installed). They blamed the uneven tire wear for the noise, and I'm sure it does add to it, but the bushings do transmit some additional noise within that window of speed (20-25mph).
In Short
For those that don't want to read all of my rambling above
The Good:
- Huge improvement in feel
- Sharper front end, far less slop
- Less roll, squat, and dive
- A more lively handling balance.
- Bang for the buck, even with the install cost this is made a large positive change to the car
The Bad
- Some additional 'tire rumble' in the cabin between 20-25mph
- May not be an easy DIY install if you don't have the tools
The Verdict
- A set of mods I'd gladly do again, make a great deal of difference, and have virtually no side-effects. Can't wait to get back to the track.
More pictures to follow, and I will update the thread once I get the car back to the track.
Please feel free to post any questions/concerns/etc.
