SQ System with Custom Speaker/Tweeter Pods

Hi Guys,

Last year I opened a thread about my speaker pods. Since then I've made some significant changes to the setup, so I decided to go ahead and start this thread.

My Old Thread: http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68947

SYSTEM COMPONENT SUMMARY (see old thread for pics of the amps and sub)
Head Unit: Pioneer Avic D3
Speaker Amp: JL Audio 300/2
Sub Amp: JL Audio 250/1
Processor: Alpine PXE-H650 (new from before)
Front Speakers: Polk Audio SR6500 (new from before)
Rear Speakers: None
Sub: JL Audio Stealth Box

As stated in my previous thread, I hated the stock location of the speakers in our car. I had custom speaker pods made. I was sporting the Diamond Audio D6 speakers with silk tweeters. After driving around for a couple months, I decided that I just didn't like the sound. The tweeters had some nasty sibilance, and midbass was lacking. After some research on various forums, I went ahead and replaced them with Polk Audio SR6500 components.

This definitely solved the sibilance problem. Those SR tweeters are so smooth! However...after another month of driving around I decided that it still didn't suit my tastes. It still sounded like so much sound was coming from mid to lower dash level. I wanted the car to sound like my home theater setup (something a lot of people find very hard to do in car audio.) I knew I wanted to keep my current speaker pods. So I decided to move the tweeters up, and try to solve any tweeter/mid seperation issues with sound processing. I decided on the Alpine PXE-H650.

For two months I drive around with the tweeters in various locations.
I tried:
1. Stock location
2. A-Pillar firing toward windshield
3. A-piller firing across
4. Stock Location but firing towards the listener
5. Stock location but firing off axis

I decided to go with option 5. Main position is about ear level, with tweeters aimed to fire in approximately the same horizontal plane as the mid drivers. This results in the tweeter firing at a point on the opposite side glass slightly forward of that occupant's ear. I made sure to drive around for a while to make sure I was truly happy. I had tweeters hotglued to my sail panels for over a month. I decided to make the tweeter pods once the warmer weather started making my tweeters fall off.

TWEETER POD BUILD:
In my other thread I explained that I paid another guy to make the mid driver pods. Due to the failing economy resulting in lack of funds and my own hatred of feeling reliant on other people to make what I need/want, I decided to build them myself.

Build Materials (total cost of materials actually used ~$25):
- Epoxy Putty
- PVC (1.5in)
- Sand Paper of various grits
- Primer
- Paint

I started off by cutting the PVC, and positioning/aiming with hotglue. Then I applied epoxy putty all over the sail panel and PVC. After a lot of sanding, I did an install test to make sure it would fit properly. Then after some painting I have some tweeter pods!

The process was somewhat frustrating. I actually painted them twice. After the first paint job, I noticed all sorts of little imperfections in the surface that were not noticeable without primer/paint. I then sanded them all down again, and got the imperfections out. The final paint job turned out much better. In the grand scheme of things it really didn't take that much effort. It was just a lot of sanding, more sanding, and even more sanding. Painting was actually easy.

IMPRINT TUNING

I did a lot of research on the Imprint processor, and it seems it is either a love or hate it relationship. Most people (including myself) found that bass levels from the sub after Imprint tuning are definitely below expectations. There is also a learning curve with respect to the tuning process itself...mainly determining proper positions with the mic.

It took about 20 tuning attempts at determining the best mic positions. I used a total of 8 positions (max allowable.) 1st position (most important as this position is used for the time alignment) at head position on driver side. Two more positions slightly to the left and right of the 1st position. One more position slightly forward of the 1st position. I then mirrored this method on the passenger side.

I solved the subwoofer output problem by following the manual. This involves turning the sub amp gain to about 9'oclock position with LP crossover off for the Imprint tuning process. After Imprint tuning is complete, I then spent a couple of days tweaking the sub amp. I ended up with gain a little more past 12'oclock, LF boost up slightly, and LP crossover at about 80Hz.

The final result with Imprint tuning and tweeter positioning...AMAZING.

Voices sound like they are coming from directly in front of the driver and above the dash with instruments forward and off to the sides. Most people ask me if I installed a center channel in the center vent on top of the dash.

Bass is very tight. You have to try hard to figure if it is coming from the mids or the subwoofer...good integration! Mids are very natural. Highs are seamless with the mids even with the physical seperation between the drivers. I am so happy to have high mounted tweets with no harshness.

Some more thoughts on Imprint:
I don't think you can rely on Imprint alone. There are definite issues with subwoofer tuning. Whey does it cancel it so much? I also thought it over compensated in a couple other areas (boosted 500Hz and boosted 3500Hz). This was evident in the frequency response graphs it shows you after the tuning process. Luckily I was able to attenuate these accordingly with the HU.

After over 6 months of trying different speakers and install locations (including stock), I highly recommend this setup. It takes a lot of work, and can be very expensive if you don't do it the DIY way. Luckily I was able to do everything besides the mid driver pods. I've put a system into almost every car I've had, but this is definitely the last one. Each time my expectations are raised. I just don't want to spend this much effort ever again, and I fear I won't be happy with anything less than this level of SQ. I'm just going to learn to be happy with the OEM setup of whatever I get next. Luckily modern OEM systems are better than they used to be.

Very Impressive! Great job, the setup looks fantastic!

very cool. nice work

Great job. I'm working on moving my mid forward to the kick panel and might do some tweeter pods like that.

Thanx

Hey,

I joined this group to say. Thanx!

I have been trying to calibrate my PXE-H650 for months.
Not really having the time to experiment with all the options.
Iv'e tried every combination I could think of. I even tried to cal like a Denon home receiver.
--5--4--6 dash
--2--1--3 frnt
--7-----8 rear

It sounded ok but, I just knew I could do better.
I found your page about a week ago and it is awsome.
I do have rear speakers so I did mod it a little.
---2--1--3----5--4--6 front
------7-----------8 rear

Now the stage is perfect for driver, passenger and rear.
I was really pulling my hair out over this thing. I almost gave up hope.
Alpine has no constructive input on this machine. The manual is a joke. They should be ashamed.

Again. Thanx.
peace out!

One more thing.

After cal I had to do a -1 freq adjust @ 500hz. The low end was muffed, sounding kinda bloated. (done by ear)
Something I did before noticing that you had the same prob.
I'll check out 3500hz.
After the 500hz fix things sounded pretty good.

Also. U said u made your adjustments thru the HU.
Why did'nt u use the AUX mode on PXE for adj?

what did you make the 6.5 pods out of? they look lovely.

I like how the tweeter pods match your OSIR guage pod!

Very impressive setup. Me = jealous

Wow, those pods look great!

Very nice job on the pods.

I ended up mounting my tweeters roughly in the same position last Fall. That was the best sounding location for me too. The factory locations were brutal.

I ran out of gas during the install. I was going to build tweeter pods but opted to mount the angled pods that came with the Hertz system. It looks OK but nothing like yours.

I may have to give my imprint another go. I was not satisfied the last time I used it but that was when I had my tweeters in the stock location.

Do you know if they have a version of Imprint for Vista yet?

Thanks, thanks a lot, now I have to redo my tweeter pods!!!!

miltcharlie said:

Hey,

I joined this group to say. Thanx!

I have been trying to calibrate my PXE-H650 for months.
Not really having the time to experiment with all the options.
Iv'e tried every combination I could think of. I even tried to cal like a Denon home receiver.
--5--4--6 dash
--2--1--3 frnt
--7-----8 rear

It sounded ok but, I just knew I could do better.
I found your page about a week ago and it is awsome.
I do have rear speakers so I did mod it a little.
---2--1--3----5--4--6 front
------7-----------8 rear

Now the stage is perfect for driver, passenger and rear.
I was really pulling my hair out over this thing. I almost gave up hope.
Alpine has no constructive input on this machine. The manual is a joke. They should be ashamed.

Again. Thanx.
peace out!

Click to expand...

Your welcome! I'm glad it worked out for you. Yeah...I agree with you. Alpine's manual is really lacking. I spent maybe two months of trial-and-error tuning and searching the internet (both car forums and home theater forums) trying to find the best method. I think your diagram is a really good way to show good tuning mic locations.

By the way...did you every try the system with and without the rear speakers? I focused so much on fronts only. I'm just wondering what kind of effect the Imprint processor brings to rear speakers in a car audio setup.

miltcharlie said:

One more thing.

After cal I had to do a -1 freq adjust @ 500hz. The low end was muffed, sounding kinda bloated. (done by ear)
Something I did before noticing that you had the same prob.
I'll check out 3500hz.
After the 500hz fix things sounded pretty good.

Also. U said u made your adjustments thru the HU.
Why did'nt u use the AUX mode on PXE for adj?

Click to expand...

I found the description for the additonal settings of the PXE to be confusing. I wanted to just try the HU first. Once I dialed in those frequencies, everything came into place. I told myself "DON'T TOUCH!"

ASCI_Blue said:

what did you make the 6.5 pods out of? they look lovely.

Click to expand...

I wish I could take credit for the 6.5 pods, but I can't. I paid a guy at work to do those. Then later when I decided I wanted to move the tweeters to the sails, the economy took a crap. I couldn't justify spending more bucks on this audio system, so I decided it was time to learn how to fabricate my own stuff.

ViRtUaLheretic said:

Wow, those pods look great!

Click to expand...

Thanks man. I like the Ultraleggeras in your sig. I just got some last week (black 18in.) They're freakin' awesome. I wish I could say the same thing about the tires I bought. What kind of rubber did you wrap them in?

fed1 said:

Very nice job on the pods.

I ended up mounting my tweeters roughly in the same position last Fall. That was the best sounding location for me too. The factory locations were brutal.

I ran out of gas during the install. I was going to build tweeter pods but opted to mount the angled pods that came with the Hertz system. It looks OK but nothing like yours.

I may have to give my imprint another go. I was not satisfied the last time I used it but that was when I had my tweeters in the stock location.

Do you know if they have a version of Imprint for Vista yet?

Thanks, thanks a lot, now I have to redo my tweeter pods!!!!

Click to expand...

I tried the Imprint CD I had with a Vista based laptop, and it worked fine. Did you try it? I think I read where others seemed to have problems with Imprint and Vista.