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Pirelli Lag

Stevo69

Datto Racer
Location
Melbourne, Australia
Car(s)
2007 MKV GTi
Well folks just took the Pirelli for a spin and all I can say is what a let down!!

I don't know what they have done to the donkey but it is a LAG monster :thumbdown:

Why is this so :iono:
 

vwgtimkv

Out of love for the car
Well folks just took the Pirelli for a spin and all I can say is what a let down!!

I don't know what they have done to the donkey but it is a LAG monster :thumbdown:

Why is this so :iono:

A combination of factors and knock-on effects. First, they have used a bigger turbo, with more boost. This is inevitably more difficult (and slower) to spool up. Secondly, the bigger turbo and higher boost has meant that they have reduced the compression ratio down from around 10.5:1 in the GTI to around 9.8:1 in the S3/Ed30/Pirelli. Lower compression exacerbates lag because the engine will now be performing worse before boost comes on line, but a lot better when boost comes on line. So a combination of the bigger turbo and the lower compression ratio creates lag.

The reason the GTI is so lag free is that it uses a relatively small turbo with low boost pressures, in combination with the cooling effects of direct injection to allow for an extremely high compression ratio for a turbo charged engine. This means that when the boost isn't on song, the engine still performs well, and there isn't such a huge step-up in power when the turbo comes on line.

Cheers
 

Stevo69

Datto Racer
Location
Melbourne, Australia
Car(s)
2007 MKV GTi
Ahhh! Thanks for the info.

I realise they use the bigger huffa but I don't get why if it's so laggy?? Cos I'm telling you the performance gains aint worth it. Even when on full boost and in the fat part of torque, it still doesn't bother the ESP!! Which in mine with an APR flash it will easily blow the bags at max torque.

What sort of power gains are we talking in the Pirelli with a remap?? And would it dial out the lag?

Cheers
 

James G

Spool makes me drool.
Location
Bunbury, WA
Car(s)
'06 CW GTI 3DR
Big gains on ko4's flashed... theres a guy in the uk with an ed30, think he's either stage 1/2 and making around 300hp

that might dail it out a bit :biggrin:
 

GC3663

Ready to race!
A combination of factors and knock-on effects. First, they have used a bigger turbo, with more boost. This is inevitably more difficult (and slower) to spool up. Secondly, the bigger turbo and higher boost has meant that they have reduced the compression ratio down from around 10.5:1 in the GTI to around 9.8:1 in the S3/Ed30/Pirelli. Lower compression exacerbates lag because the engine will now be performing worse before boost comes on line, but a lot better when boost comes on line. So a combination of the bigger turbo and the lower compression ratio creates lag.

The reason the GTI is so lag free is that it uses a relatively small turbo with low boost pressures, in combination with the cooling effects of direct injection to allow for an extremely high compression ratio for a turbo charged engine. This means that when the boost isn't on song, the engine still performs well, and there isn't such a huge step-up in power when the turbo comes on line.

Cheers

sorry if im a bit slow ...but does this mean that if u put the k04 onto the regular GTI u'll get less lag....but also worse performance than the ed30/pirelli when the boost comes on?
 

vwgtimkv

Out of love for the car
sorry if im a bit slow ...but does this mean that if u put the k04 onto the regular GTI u'll get less lag....but also worse performance than the ed30/pirelli when the boost comes on?

This sounds right. The main issue is the compression ratio. That's where the lag comes from.

Basically if you just take a NA engine and then lower the compression ratio, performance will dramatically decline. Which is basically what happened to the 2.0T engine in this case; before the turbo kicks in, it's just basically the same engine with a lower compression ratio, hence lower performance. The bigger turbo on the S3/Ed30/Pirelli kicks in a bit later (I think around 2500, rather than 2000 on the GTI) due to its larger size, which exacerbates the lagginess.

I remember Jeremy Clarkson complaining about the lag in the S3 when he first drove it. I think it only seems so pronounced compared to our cars, which have basically no lag whatsoever. Compared to an sti or an evo or skyline, I still think it's pretty good.

Chipped the engine puts out around 230kw. Which would be a no brainer, lol. Albeit a little scary in our fwd platform when the 180kw or so I'm running is enough to stretch the chassis' talent.

Below is the power and torque curves for the Ed30 engine vs. the stock GTI engine; you can clearly see that the boost comes on later than in the GTI (due to the larger turbo) and that the initial dip is a lot lower than the GTI (due to the lower compression). Its a little hard to tell because of the inconsistent scaling, but if you look closely you can see the difference.

Cheers
 

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GTILIN

Banned
Location
Melbourne
Car(s)
Golf GTI 3 Door BM
K03 should kick in at 2500rpm and K04 at 2800rpm and a GT28RS is at 3200rpm.

Have this poor Pirelli already has a blown DV.
 

Capercat

It's a chuck-about
Location
Location :)
I remember Jeremy Clarkson complaining about the lag in the S3 when he first drove it. I think it only seems so pronounced compared to our cars, which have basically no lag whatsoever.

Spot on :thumbsup:

This is why the rumored RS3/TT-RS will have a twin turbo.
 

funny

VCDS guru & soon Dad x2 !
Location
Sydney
Car(s)
Golf MkV GTI MY07
K03 should kick in at 2500rpm and K04 at 2800rpm and a GT28RS is at 3200rpm.

Have this poor Pirelli already has a blown DV.

I thought VW "claim" max torque 1800-5000something stock?
Maybe not by the butt-o-meter but it would explain why it feels like nothing after about 2300rpm as stock.
Chipped is another matter.

BTW - what's with the wierded english GTILIN????? :iono:
Keep having to second guess some of your words so they sentence actually makes sense!
 

GTILIN

Banned
Location
Melbourne
Car(s)
Golf GTI 3 Door BM
Im asian man leave my english alone :(

Let me reword.

Maybe that Pirelli GTI has a faulty DV.
 

Stevo69

Datto Racer
Location
Melbourne, Australia
Car(s)
2007 MKV GTi
In the words of Ralph Wiggam: Me fail english? That's unpossible :biggrin:
 

Hong Chau

Banned
Location
Melbourne
In the words of Ralph Wiggam: Me fail english? That's unpossible :biggrin:

thats because when he grows up he wants to be a principal.... or a caterpillar!!:bellyroll: :bellyroll:
 

gti mk5

BEST!!!
Location
Syd
Car(s)
GTi MK5
great info guys cheers.
no i'm happy i didnt wait for the perilli :p
 

srbsta

Banned
Location
Sydney,Australia
Car(s)
2006 Volkswagen GTI
my boost hits just under 2000rpm :headbang:

lol i am getting 21psi spike at 2500 i think :fighting0030:
 

James G

Spool makes me drool.
Location
Bunbury, WA
Car(s)
'06 CW GTI 3DR
my boost hits just under 2000rpm :headbang:

lol i am getting 21psi spike at 2500 i think :fighting0030:

oh will you shut up about your car! your making me jealous! :biggrin:
 
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