My S3 IC+Forge Twintercooler review.

Well folks i said in the past i would do it, and i've finally gotten around to looking at all the logs i've been doing the past 2 months.

The following are my own thoughts/results, after many runs and different settings using the above combo.I will also be posting some graphs, although i don't really thing putting a nice picture up will make any difference to the validity of my results/comments.People can take my post as the please.They can either believe and learn from it, or they can dismiss it as possible propaganda.Either way, i DON'T care...

So here it goes...

First, some comments about the S3 IC by itself.Before actually combining the two IC's i had about 4-5 months of experience with that unit.Contrary to what some people may believe, the S3 IC is a pretty cool intercooler.It does a very good job when compared to the stock GTI IC, but doesn't give the max performance when paired with a high boosting K04.The car feels strong at first, but after a couple of runs, it just gets "tired" and power drops off, hence the need for more cooling.

Pairing the two IC's was a pretty easy task.Having the S3 IC meant that i needed the S3 hoses, but the Gti core to do the job right.Some claimed the Gti hoses might also fit, but hey if you do something, at least do it right.

My initial experience with the Forge combo wasn't at all what i expected.Coming to these forums you hear about how the Forge might increase lag, how its a compromise in design, how much of a pressure drop it creates.Well in my case NONE of the above happened.I expected a decrease in pedal feel and off throttle acceleration, but what happened was exactly the opposite.Car immediately felt peppier, and every day that passed even more so.I can say i was pleasantly surprised.:thumbsup:

Logging the 2 units busted another "myth".How the Forge would decrease boost ramp up and cause a laggy sensation when accelerating.Well VAG COM showed the curve of the S3 and the Combo one where ALMOST IDENTICAL.Don't ask me how or why.I was looking for differences to justify all the commotion, but nothing was there.

Then there where the intake temps.Logging the S3 IC at previous instances and doing 2nd to 5th gear pulls with an outside temp of 28 C showed IAT of 45 C, whereas during similar runs (and ambient temps) the combo showed a drop of 5 C !! as low as 40 C at the end of 5th gear.And thats with a K04 setup....During normal travel, the combo showed (at 38 C outside temp) an almost constant IAT of 42 C.Thats just 4 C over ambient !!

As an immense plus, the car just doesn't heatsoak any more.From the moment you turn on the key till you turn the engine off, the power is just always there.

Needless to say adding the Forge made it possible to up the timing a notch, giving even more performance.Car is going on the dyno sometime next month (hopefully) to see what the exact gains are.

Well thats about it.If you ask me if the combo is worth it, i would say it surely depends on what you are running.For me a K04 surely necessitates the use of a bigger cooling setup.Sure there are other IC's out there, but its more of a choice between APR's IC and the S3+Forge Combo.I chose the 2nd cause i already had the S3 installed, and i don't regret it one bit.There was none of the ill effects mentioned in this and other forums, and there was a clear improvement in engine function.

Thumbs up to Forge for a great product. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

This is what I would expect. If the S3 intercooler was not smack bang up against the radiator which is an 87'c object then it would do much much better.

Forge placement is not a compromise whereas the stock location is for ease of packaging and reduced damage for small fender benders.

POLARBEAR666 said:

This is what I would expect. If the S3 intercooler was not smack bang up against the radiator which is an 87'c object then it would do much much better.

Forge placement is not a compromise whereas the stock location is for ease of packaging and reduced damage for small fender benders.

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To be honest i didn't expect to see THAT much more difference with the Forge, since i had already felt a big difference with the S3 alone.

I was kinda weary after reading all the "boost lag" horror stories, but it turned out it was just "hot air" :wink: .

It's really a whole different car when you just press on the pedal, and every single time the car feels as strong as before.

I was kinda "lucky" to be logging the car in 40 C weather.I think that made so much more of a difference.

so you spent money on two intercoolers?

alf said:

so you spent money on two intercoolers?

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Well i had gotten a VERY good deal on the S3 IC (you can find one pretty cheap over here if you look around), so my "IC upgrade" path was a one way street.

Either way if someone wants more cooling as i said its either APR's IC of the S3+Forge combo.I already had the S3 so...

Plus, i doubt APR's IC is a match for 2 intercoolers.... :wink:

I think this is like shavers.... how long before the TRI-Cooler!

I kinda like the idea of, S3 + Forge + water/methanol injection.

In Australia during summer turbo cars feel like they are towing a house. Heat soak is ridiculous on 35+c days.

Thanks for the info. Do you happen to remember the difference between the s3 and stock intercooler? A intercooler upgrade is probably my next mod, i live in Florida 97 deg with lots of humidity, and am looking for some real data or feedback from those who have the s3 intercooler. I am staying with the ko3, so if i can save a few bucks and get an efficient s3, thats more money for something else. In your post you said, s3 IAT were 45 deg, combo 40 deg, what do you think stock IC would have been?

GolfRS,
Good stuff man. Thanks for the review. I'm glad you were finally able to get this project completed. Out of curiosity, do you feel that the placement of the Forge IC plays a bigger part in your lower IAT or just the added amount of cooling area? The reason I ask, is b/c I have the same results that you have achieved (+5 degrees over ambient) with the EJ FMIC, albeit my results are on a k03. Thanks again for the review. :thumbup:

Exactly GolfRs as far as pressure drop and lag with a forge twintercooler setup it is a myth. I hold 22.5psi across a 3k rpm range and my spool up times are faster then ever via vagcom results. As well no heat soak and how sweet and easy the install is. As always a big :thumbsup: to Forge motorsports. You can't beat the results and look with even a $1k+ IC :wink:

It's pretty clear from reading the last few reviews on the Forge FMIC that it's quite an effective mod. Glad to see all the BS about the Forge unit increasing lag or decreasing sustained boost be shown as false.

While I can't exactly see people running out to buy an S3 and a Forge FMIC... it does allow for a VERY nice upgrade path for people who couldn't afford an expensive FMIC and went with the S3...

wannagofast said:

Thanks for the info. Do you happen to remember the difference between the s3 and stock intercooler? A intercooler upgrade is probably my next mod, i live in Florida 97 deg with lots of humidity, and am looking for some real data or feedback from those who have the s3 intercooler. I am staying with the ko3, so if i can save a few bucks and get an efficient s3, thats more money for something else. In your post you said, s3 IAT were 45 deg, combo 40 deg, what do you think stock IC would have been?

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The S3 is an very good upgrade if you are planning to stay with a K03, but so is Forge (from what people say).On the other hand, I installed the Forge in 2 hours time, whereas the S3 IC needed the whole front to be removed...
As for the temps comparison, its not really possible since you are trying to compare temps from different turbos....

rbradleymedmd said:

GolfRS,
Good stuff man. Thanks for the review. I'm glad you were finally able to get this project completed. Out of curiosity, do you feel that the placement of the Forge IC plays a bigger part in your lower IAT or just the added amount of cooling area? The reason I ask, is b/c I have the same results that you have achieved (+5 degrees over ambient) with the EJ FMIC, albeit my results are on a k03. Thanks again for the review. :thumbup:

Click to expand...

Well to be honest, i think its a little of both.Temps rise IMMEDIATELY at traffic stops, and in 38 C weather IAT's reach 52 C (stand still).I think the difference comes from the fact that the larger volume (and maybe the position) helps bring down IAT's at lightspeed when on the move again.I've seen drops of 52 to 42 in a matter of literary SECONDS...And the engine can tell.BTW i noticed the biggest difference in the upper revs, and for those that asked, it was more or less like installing another S3 IC.

I do have to note however an IC upgrade should perform better with increased tuning to take advantage of timing and IAT's.

Oh and something i also forgot to mention...

There was NO DIFFERENCE whatsoever to how the engine was cooled by the radiator.NADA....

I have been wondering if someone was going to do this and I want to give you a big :thumbsup:

I've never doubted the claims that Forge made about their setup and now we have someone that actually back up their claims.

Post the logs?