Car won't start, no dash service lights come on!

Firstly I have searched a great damn deal, I have gone through a-z in looking for the fault myself before looking online!

Here is the deal, about a week ago my car shut off while driving, I still had power steering but car would not start for 5min! When this happend the normal service lights and gauges did not come on when attempting to restart, I had power to doors and stereo but no dash unless I opened the door and the mileage would pop up with time and how hot it was outside. After 5mim needle lights and everything worked fine and did not flicker or anything...

A week later it fucking happened again, this time I was taking my son to school and lost power, damn engine died again with no warning! Waited 5-10 minutes then bamn like nothing was wrong car started right back up and ran for a few days with zero issues!

Yesterday after being exhausted from looking for some sort of fault I finally searched online here and at vortex. Btw Vcds shows no fault when car shuts off!!! Seems this can be common but the cause can vary a lot! One suggestion said maybe low gas causing pump to overheat! I was half a tank but said fuckit I prefer to be topped of anyway... I also checked the module sitting on top of the pump to see if it was hot or melting, nope no apparent signs of failure or damage! Checked fuses as another possibility but they were all good tight and powered!

Today after getting pizza for the kids I get home an right before I drive up the driveway the car fucking died again!!! MF was u lucky this time because since I got home the car has not started or even attempted to. Before anyone asks my battery is fully charged and new, replaced OEM one becuase it was the original battery and lived for 7 damn years! Put it in trickle charge just to be sure but that didn't help one damn bit! I also replaced the two relays in the fuse panel next it battered and that did nothing either!

I'm pissed off, tired and need my car to run, I have a newborn baby girl so I can't leave my wife with no car as I go to school every other night during the week!

I've looked at the ecu but I can't see anything wrong with the scope I borrowed! I'm tuned, but I'm lucky I have an MED17 ecu in my 2008.5 TSI jetta wolf so it never been pulled for flashing, it's all been through the obd2 port!

I just pulled the dash and checked the back of the cluster for a short or signs if damage but it clean and doesn't have a smell like an electrical short.

I'm out of ideas and need help please, I'm a disabled vet and all this work trying to fix my car is beetling my body to shit hard! If anyone has insight or lives in the Victorville Ca area and thinks they can help me out please do! I will give you an intake I was going to sell, it's a forge twintake in great shape! Please call text or pm me, 760 554 0307 my name is denny

sounds like the immobilizer is kicking in...

try using a different key.

I tried that actually, then I logged in and used the immo pin and turned it off, car still randomly shit off for another week before it decided to just die yesterday evening.

I pulled the two relays under the hood with key in on position and nothing happened, I checked to see if I was getting any power at the fuel pump with relay in place and out with door open and key in on position and I'm not getting any power to the fuel pump.

The two relays I used to replace the first two I pulled aren't even identical to the originals. I'm so burnt out trying to get my car up and running, I bought the wrong damn relays! MF!!!!!!

Tried the original relays which ecstuning refers to them as relay 460, and I'm not getting any power to the fuel pump... I may be on the right track, but I won't know for sure until I get my hands on 2 confirmed working relay. Hopefully I will be a lot more attentive to what I'm buying!

Aren't the MED17 TSI ECUs the ones that DO have to be pulled for the initial flash, whereas MED9 FSI ECU can be initially flashed over OBD2? Just a small nitpick.

I don't believe that's the case, found a thread here that says only some MED17 ecu could not be flashed through obd2 because of a different coding. All MED17.5 and later are the ones that are required to be pulled.

Here is a pick of mine, never been touched,


As you can see in the pick, the factor security is still in place and the surrounding area is a virgin, giggady!

Can't find the thread I mentioned but here is the info from another thread I found on a different forum...

The VW Audi Group has updated the ECU security from 2010 model year vehicles with MED17 and EDC17 ECUs e.g. cars like the Audi B8. This is an enhanced version of ECU security that has been incorporated in Bosch ECU’s since the launch of EDC16, but has only now been fully activated. It is not currently possible to override this security lock by communicating with the ECU via the OBD2 port. Therefore these late model vehicles cannot currently be remapped the standard way by flashing an aftermarket file through the OBD2 Port.

The security exists in the form of unbreakable digital signature which is required to “match” at the time of the remap. If the ECU requests the digital signature and the remap does not contain a “matching” digital signature the ECU will default to an unusable mode.

Revo Technik is proud to announce the launch of the new SPX and Crypt-X software. The new specially developed hardware and software allows Revo Dealers to unlock the ECU and flash through the OBDII port.

Here is the link,

http://vwclub.co.za/forum/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=114939

I originally had my flash done at the Unitronics dealer in San Diego Ca, they never pulled my ecu I watched the entire time and they waited for the file from Uni for about an hr then flashed it in less than 12min.

I will pull the ecu if I need to, but so far I don't see any signs of loose wiring, no burnt smell like an electrical issue is present. I did place the relays in the freezer overnight and just plugged them in, now I get voltage to the fuel pump.... Weird I know but so far I'm leaning towards the relays ecstuning refers to as relay 460,
Here is the link to them on there site...

http://www.ecstuning.com/Volkswagen-Jetta_V--2.0T/Search/SiteSearch/Relay_460/ES318577/

I tried to run a hot wire to see if I could get the relay to close the second circuit and it doesn't budge, I ordered 2 so I'm gunna crack the fucker open to see if there fried or not. If so I got 2 on the way.
Here is a pic of the circuit diagram on the relay itself,

We'll I checked relays, they both work! The relay spot to the left of this picture doesn't work on this side, we'll at least I have narrowed it down to what it is not!!! The left does get vtage when key is on but it doesn't cycle with the key, weird it has power but that's it, no function... Could I actually have loose wiring I'm in aware of?

gunna go ahead and pull ecu to see what's up, now to find a tutorial on how to remove it! Found it here,

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4017198

I figured before I started pulling ECU I'd try to Vagcom and see what comes up, it's a long list of issues all related to not having ecu access. The short of it is what I already know, no ecu access and no tcu or DSG trans access. As far as the Vagcom was concerned I don't have a tcu or ecu installed! Fuses all work relays seems to be good after all, if I do have a bad connection at ecu it would only figure as to why the second 460 relay doesn't function even though it is powered....

can anyone make sense of this, I traced all wires and fuse panels in car and under hood and I have yet to find a fault in a single fuse or relay. wires to ecu seem to appear like new, and I traced the power to the ecu from the relay and nothing wrong there. SOme of the errors below are because I pulled a few fuses while the key was in the on position.

Sunday,08,June,2014,16:48:56:49017
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator
VCDS Version: 12.12.2.0 (x64)
Data version: 20140212
VIN: 3VWRA71K78M197459 License Plate:
Mileage: 77900km-48404mi Repair Order:



Chassis Type: 1K (1K0)
Scan: 01 02 03 08 09 0F 11 31 16 17 19 25 42 44 46 52 53 62 65 7
VIN: 3VWRA71K78M197459 Mileage: 77900km/48404miles
01-Engine -- Status: OK 0000
02-Auto Trans -- Status: OK 0000
03-ABS Brakes -- Status: OK 0000
04-Steering Angle -- Status: OK 0000
08-Auto HVAC -- Status: Malfunction 1010
09-Cent. Elect. -- Status: Malfunction 1010
0F-Digital Radio -- Status: Not registered 0011
11-Engine II -- Status: Cannot be reached 1100
31-Engine other -- Status: Cannot be reached 1100
16-Steering wheel -- Status: Malfunction 1010
17-Instruments -- Status: OK 0000
19-CAN Gateway -- Status: Malfunction 0010
25-Immobilizer -- Status: Not registered 0001
42-Door Elect, Driver -- Status: Malfunction 1010
44-Steering Assist -- Status: OK 0000
46-Central Conv. -- Status: Malfunction 1010
52-Door Elect, Pass. -- Status: Malfunction 1010
53-Parking Brake -- Status: Cannot be reached 1100
62-Door, Rear Left -- Status: Sporadic communication error 1000
65-Tire Pressure -- Status: Not registered 0011
72-Door, Rear Right -- Status: Sporadic communication error 1000

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC Labels: 1K0-820-047.lbl
Part No SW: 1K0 820 047 HS HW: 1K0 820 047 HS
Component: Climatic PQ35 142 1111
Revision: 00142031 Serial number: 00000000000000
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
VCID: 7CD910323F541EFEC7F-8029

3 Faults Found:
00819 - High Pressure Sensor (G65)
009 - Open or Short to Ground
01316 - ABS Control Module
004 - No Signal/Communication
01314 - Engine Control Module
004 - No Signal/Communication

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 09: Cent. Elect. Labels: 3C0-937-049-30-M.lbl
Part No SW: 3C0 937 049 AH HW: 3C0 937 049 AH
Component: Bordnetz-SG H54 2202
Revision: 00H54000 Serial number: 00000000974513
Coding: 00048E014004100012230000001E0000B200100364000100000000000000
Shop #: WSC 00066 123 12345
VCID: 6FC3377E7E22756672D-803A

Subsystem 1 - Part No: 1K1 955 119 E Labels: 1KX-955-119.CLB
Component: Wischer 170608 021 0501
Coding: 00038805
Shop #: WSC 00066


01309 - Power Steering Control Module (J500)
004 - No Signal/Communication
Address 0F: Digital Radio Labels: 8E0-035-593-SIR.lbl
Part No SW: 8E0 035 593 M HW: 8E0 035 593 M
Component: SDAR SIRIUS H07 0150
Revision: 00000000 Serial number: AUZ4Z7H0344446
Coding: 0000100
Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
VCID: 334BFB0E528A1186565-8066

1 Fault Found:
Address 16: Steering wheel Labels: 1K0-953-549-MY8.lbl
Part No SW: 1K0 953 549 BF HW: 1K0 953 549 BF
Component: J0527 051 0101
Coding: 0010021
Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
VCID: 77D30F1E06723DA6AAD-8022

1 Fault Found:
00002 - Transmission Control Unit
004 - No Signal/Communication

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments Labels: 1K0-920-xxx-17.lbl
Part No SW: 1K0 920 954 P HW: 1K0 920 954 P
Component: KOMBIINSTRUMENT 3HL 1222
Revision: V0002000 Serial number: VWX7Z0H524F018
Coding: 0000222
Shop #: WSC 02010 993 13239
VCID: 3957C92670E6EBD69C9-806C

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway Labels: 1K0-907-530-V3.clb
Part No SW: 1K0 907 530 L HW: 1K0 907 951
Component: J533 Gateway H07 0052
Revision: H07 01 Serial number: 270408F1004447
Coding: 7F807E060000021002
Shop #: WSC 00066 123 12345
VCID: 3041F402A39C2A9E2B7-8065

11 Faults Found:
00457 - Control Module for Network (J519)
004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
01330 - Central Control Module for Central Convenience (J393)
004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
01331 - Door Control Module; Driver Side (J386)
004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
01332 - Door Control Module; Passenger Side (J387)
004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
01333 - Door Control Module; Rear Left (J388)
004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
01334 - Door Control Module; Rear Right (J389)
004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
00466 - Control Module for Steering Column Electronics (J527)
004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
01320 - Control Module for Climatronic (J255)
004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
01044 - Control Module Incorrectly Coded
000 - -
01342 - Engine Control Module 2 (Slave 1)
004 - No Signal/Communication
00473 - Control Module for Elect. Park/Hand Brake (J540)
004 - No Signal/Communication

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 25: Immobilizer Labels: 1K0-920-xxx-25.clb
Part No SW: 1K0 920 954 P HW: 1K0 920 954 P
Component: IMMO 3HL 1222
Revision: V0002000 Serial number: VWX7Z0H524F018
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
VCID: 3957C92670E6EBD69C9-806C

No fault code found.
Address 42: Door Elect, Driver Labels: 1K0-959-701-MIN3.lbl
Part No SW: 1K0 959 701 AC HW: 1K0 959 793 N
Component: J386 TUER-SG FT 1519
Revision: 72009005 Serial number: 00000829388524
Coding: 0001205
Shop #: WSC 00064 000 00000
VCID: 6FC3377E7E22756672D-803A

2 Faults Found:
00932 - Electric Window Motor; Drivers Side (V147)
005 - No or Incorrect Basic Setting / Adaptation
01321 - Control Module for Airbags (J234)
004 - No Signal/Communication
Address 46: Central Conv. Labels: 1K0-959-433-MAX.clb
Part No SW: 1K0 959 433 CT HW: 1K0 959 433 CT
Component: KSG PQ35 RDK 052 0221
Revision: 00052000 Serial number: 00000000000000
Coding: 12980F880186403F2F040F8FE0880F0688DE40
Shop #: WSC 00066 123 12345
VCID: 8429E8D2C7A4E63E3FF-80D1

Subsystem 1 - Component: Sounder n.mounted

Subsystem 2 - Component: NGS n.mounted

Subsystem 3 - Component: IRUE n.mounted

8 Faults Found:
01320 - Control Module for Climatronic (J255)
004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
00830 - Convertible Top Control Module (J256)
004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
00457 - Control Module for Network (J519)
004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
00466 - Control Module for Steering Column Electronics (J527)
004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
01299 - Diagnostic Interface for Data Bus (J533)
004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
00317 - Rear Lid Control Module (J605)
004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
01517 - Control Module for Trailer/Towing Sensor (J345)
004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
00625 - Vehicle Speed Signal
004 - No Signal/Communication
Address 52: Door Elect, Pass. Labels: 1K0-959-702-MIN3.lbl
Part No SW: 1K0 959 702 AC HW: 1K0 959 792 N
Component: J387 TUER-SG BT 1519
Revision: 72009005 Serial number: 00000753788610
Coding: 0001204
Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
VCID: 70C13402631C6A9E6B7-8025

2 Faults Found:
00933 - Electric Window Motor; Passenger Side (V148)
005 - No or Incorrect Basic Setting / Adaptation
01321 - Control Module for Airbags (J234)
004 - No Signal/Communication

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 62: Door, Rear Left Labels: 1K0-959-703-GEN3.lbl
Part No SW: 1K0 959 703 Q HW: 1K0 959 795 J
Component: J388 TUER-SG HL 1120
Revision: 12006001 Serial number: 00000003172105
Coding: 0001168
Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
VCID: 3E5DDA3A69C8CCEEA9B-806B

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 65: Tire Pressure Labels: 3C0-959-433-65.lbl
Part No SW: 1K0 959 433 CT HW: 1K0 959 433 CT
Component: RDK 0450
Revision: 00052000 Serial number: 00000000000000
Coding: 0100101
Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
VCID: 8429E8D2C7A4E63E3FF-80D1

3 Faults Found:
01521 - Sensor for Tire Pressure
004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
00667 - Ambient Temperature Signal
008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
00625 - Vehicle Speed Signal
008 - Implausible Signal

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 72: Door, Rear Right Labels: 1K0-959-704-GEN3.lbl
Part No SW: 1K0 959 704 Q HW: 1K0 959 794 J
Component: J389 TUER-SG HR 1120
Revision: 12006001 Serial number: 00000003158261
Coding: 0001168
Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
VCID: 3FA3A73E6EC2C5E6A2D-806A

No fault code found.

End ---------------------------------------------------------------------

incase your curious the stock radio is removed with a kenwood head unit in its place, I didn't use the can bus system. I taped all that up heavily and tucked it out of the way months ago.

This is what my dash does when I pull a fuse on the driver side fuse panel in car, I believe the fuse is the ecu fuse and also a a fuse to other things.




The next pic is what happens with all fuses in and battery is connected. And yes the key is turned to on position.



The next pick is what happens when I open the driver side door.



The best way to describe what happened the last time my car died and how it died before is the center dash lights dimmed and flickered between on and off, similar to the way you can dim lights over a dining or diner table at home. I posted the error logs. But so far I'm failing to find any faults with wiring, fuzes, or relays!

I don't understand why my car would randomly die, then take a few minutes to cool down then fire right back up, this went on for a few weeks. Now its just plain dead after running data logs for Doug at FT, I drove home after logging and the car has been XX since!

I month ago I do recal getting intermittent ecu communication errors, but the car never did shut of then.

here is the cable end from the ecu,




and here is bottom side of fuse and relay box under hood.



top side



Ive checked for current flow all over this damn car and its getting power to the cable leading to the ecu, but Vagcom says it aint there WTF!