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Stability control defeat? No rotation? WTF?

M

miamirice

Ready to race!
Location
Miami
So I took my 07 mkv out yesterday at palm beach international on some worn street tires. The goal was to do some big drifts on the sweepers and I could not figure out how to defeat the stability control. Annoyingly we could get the car into a nice position by doing the "finish flick" and trail braking and then the rear brakes would jump in and ruin the party.

I did not think there were German cars that you could not turn off 100% electronic nannies. Is there a fuse I can pull?
 
the bruce

the bruce

Go Kart Champion
Location
land
Car(s)
Golf GTI Mk.V 2008
In Germany it's the same bullshXXt.

When I press the button my ESP stays awake and kicks in if I touch the brake pedal.
Without hitting the brake oversteer is a thing possible in some situation (if the rear tires
are cold and filled to higher pressure).
 
D

daigo

Oval Newbie
Location
Kuwana City, Mie Pref. JAPAN
Car(s)
Mkv GTI
Pulling out the fuse would kill ABS, I won't recomend it.

I unplugged the connector from G419 lateral & acceleration sensor unit located under the driver's seat(mine is RHD), and it worked pretty well sliding rear. ABS still works fine, had fun at Fuji speedway short track last saturday.
 
the bruce

the bruce

Go Kart Champion
Location
land
Car(s)
Golf GTI Mk.V 2008
daigo said:
Pulling out the fuse would kill ABS, I won't recomend it.

I unplugged the connector from G419 lateral & acceleration sensor unit located under the driver's seat(mine is RHD), and it worked pretty well sliding rear. ABS still works fine, had fun at Fuji speedway short track last saturday.
Click to expand...


Right, ABS and even more electronic brake distribution will be off. So not a good idea.

Unplugging G419 unfortunately is a proper way, but only on earlier models.
My 2008 GTI has the ESP cluster mounted in the engine bay (passenger side behind the engine).

:cry:
 
M

miamirice

Ready to race!
Location
Miami
the bruce said:
Right, ABS and even more electronic brake distribution will be off. So not a good idea.

Unplugging G419 unfortunately is a proper way, but only on earlier models.
My 2008 GTI has the ESP cluster mounted in the engine bay (passenger side behind the engine).

:cry:
Click to expand...

Anymore info what I can unplug? I am challenged when it comes to electrical. I don't mind losing all that stuff. Our race car has none of this. I will need my GTI for Daytona and need this nonsense to go away.
 
M

miamirice

Ready to race!
Location
Miami
daigo said:
Pulling out the fuse would kill ABS, I won't recomend it.

I unplugged the connector from G419 lateral & acceleration sensor unit located under the driver's seat(mine is RHD), and it worked pretty well sliding rear. ABS still works fine, had fun at Fuji speedway short track last saturday.
Click to expand...

Have you driven on Suzuka? Can't imagine 130R in the wet. :eyebulge:
 
bostonaudi

bostonaudi

Go Kart Champion
Location
Charleston, SC
Car(s)
1995 BMW M3
On a Mk5, turning off ESP does nothing other than stop the ECU from cutting throttle when it detects front wheelspin. That's it. On my car, on really hard off camber corners it still screws with my brakes as it apparently thinks I'm about to lose it (and then the unexpected braking nearly causes me to lose it!).
 
M

miamirice

Ready to race!
Location
Miami
That's a proper race car. It has very little in common with what you and I drive. it may run a different electrical harness and if not it probably has 30-40 lbs of wire ripped out. They probably don't even run the power assist steering.
 
Dynjo

Dynjo

Ready to race!
Location
Chicagoland
It begs the question, though...

If the rules permit ABS, would you keep it?

If the rules permit stability control and traction control, would you keep them?

I'm sure the pro teams that run production-based cars have wrestled with these questions, but I don't know the answers myself. Perhaps someone here does.

Getting sideways and otherwise hooning it up around corners may be fun, but it's not the fastest way to the podium. I'd love to hear the pro's take on this.
 
D

daigo

Oval Newbie
Location
Kuwana City, Mie Pref. JAPAN
Car(s)
Mkv GTI
the bruce said:
Right, ABS and even more electronic brake distribution will be off. So not a good idea.

Unplugging G419 unfortunately is a proper way, but only on earlier models.
My 2008 GTI has the ESP cluster mounted in the engine bay (passenger side behind the engine).

:cry:
Click to expand...

Assume unplugging G419 also losing electronic brake bias. Not confident, I think brake distribution controller are using acceleration signal for setting a brake balance.

Well, my 2006 GTI mounted under the floor carpet, so I cut it apart for easy access. ESP unit mounted close to B pillar + floor corner, It is also hard to access.

I wonder where in engine bay which 2008+ model settles... It requres really flat place, why they've changed the place so forward??
 
M

miamirice

Ready to race!
Location
Miami
Dynjo said:
It begs the question, though...

If the rules permit ABS, would you keep it?

If the rules permit stability control and traction control, would you keep them?

I'm sure the pro teams that run production-based cars have wrestled with these questions, but I don't know the answers myself. Perhaps someone here does.

Getting sideways and otherwise hooning it up around corners may be fun, but it's not the fastest way to the podium. I'd love to hear the pro's take on this.
Click to expand...


While some manufacturers such as Ferrari and porsche has software that allow a slip angle to occur which is required to be fast, and yes could be productive if rules allow, what we have from VW in no way is productive at the track. It's intrusive and very counterproductive. I am certainly no pro, but I bet I can lap the car faster on street tires with no nannies vs R compounds with factory stability on.
 
Dynjo

Dynjo

Ready to race!
Location
Chicagoland
miamirice said:
what we have from VW in no way is productive at the track. It's intrusive and very counterproductive. I am certainly no pro, but I bet I can lap the car faster on street tires with no nannies vs R compounds with factory stability on.
Click to expand...

I guess I expected a comment like that because I have raised the issue before and had similar responses.

Maybe my '07 system tolerates higher slip angles, or maybe my driving style is too conservative, but whenever the system has kicked in on me, I'm already thinking "I'm in too hot" or "I just screwed up that steering wheel input". In other words, when stability system says "You need help now", I'm generally agreeing with it.

I'm not saying that I would lose control of the car without intervention from DSC. I'm just saying that I've learned that tidy driving on the racetrack is rewarded with lower lap times, and if the stability control is kicking in, you are not driving in a tidy fashion.

So, for me in my car, in a fast lap, the system would never kick in.
 
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the bruce

the bruce

Go Kart Champion
Location
land
Car(s)
Golf GTI Mk.V 2008
When driving smooth and 'round' ESP doesn't disturb to my feeling.
I didn't have any issues on track.
The only problem is when I do Autocross where turning is much harder.
But on my 2008 mid corner oversteer is easy if I don't touch the brake pedal.
 
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