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Old 02-03-2011, 01:23 PM   #1
madmanhiker
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mk5 canbus led signals? anyone have them?

looking to change my sons 07 rabbit front turn signals to led. I do NOT have access to vag com, looking for a true plug/play incandescent to LED solution for the front signals in OEM ecode halogen rabbit headlights. I searched the DIY and technical, can't believe this hasn't been researched, perhaps I missed it. new member to this forum... not new German auto enthusiast. ;-) eager to learn about this wabbit.

thanks in advance!
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Old 02-03-2011, 06:36 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by madmanhiker View Post
looking to change my sons 07 rabbit front turn signals to led. I do NOT have access to vag com, looking for a true plug/play incandescent to LED solution for the front signals in OEM ecode halogen rabbit headlights. I searched the DIY and technical, can't believe this hasn't been researched, perhaps I missed it. new member to this forum... not new German auto enthusiast. ;-) eager to learn about this wabbit.

thanks in advance!
The GTI and the Rabbit use different bulbs for the front turn signals.
Have yet to find LEDs that will fit the front turn signal in the GTI fixture.

The GTI uses a special bayonet base 12W slim halogen bulb in the front turn signal


The Rabbit uses a standard 1156 bulb in the front turn signal, just like the tail lights.


LEDs that will fit the Rabbit fixture are more common,
superbrightleds.com (the banner ad in this thread) has a whole page of 1156 LEDs,
but none are 'error canceling' .
They offer an external resistor to address the issue,
but now you are into wiring modifications - not plug and play.

Unless you can find 'error canceling' 1156 bulbs,
they will not work plug and play.
Regular LEDs will trigger a bulb out and disable the circuit.

Regular LEDs that fit the 1156 socket are easy to find,
but the 'error canceling' aka canbus bulbs are more rare.
They seem to exist ... canbus turn lights - 1156 -4W
but I have yet to find a source for them.
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Old 02-03-2011, 09:04 PM   #3
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Good info JetTurbo. Most circuits have a range of impedences that it will tolerate, so you may be able to get away without the canbus fix. For example, switching EITHER the city lights OR the sidemarker bulbs on a Rabbit to LEDs will not trip the error signal and turn off the entire circuit, but switching both will cause it to shut off. And wiring in a small resistor is definitely not a difficult task, but it does make it "not plug-and-play," like you said.

OP, why do you want LEDs in that particular socket???
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Old 02-04-2011, 10:07 AM   #4
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Good info JetTurbo. Most circuits have a range of impedences that it will tolerate,...
That is true, they are more tolerant of high current draw than low current draw though.
I run a 50W halogen bulb in my lone backup light, a little more than double the normal 1156 bulb's 22W.
Been running it for about 100,000 miles with no issues.
(Tried LED in the backup light first, but the LED bulbs made such poor use of the fixtures reflector,
the result was dimmer than stock. )

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrillyPop View Post
... so you may be able to get away without the canbus fix. ...
On the mk5 turn signals, it will be up to a lone bulb to do the job.
There is no VAG-COM mod that can disable the active monitoring of any enabled exterior light circuit.

I have read reports that the 1156 5W Eagle Eye 5 Luxeon / SMD hybrid LED bulbs from autolumination


do draw enough to satisfy the controller, but I have no first hand experience with that bulb,
as it will not fit into the GTI's front turn signal fixture. (and at $20+ per bulb, it is not cheap).

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrillyPop View Post
For example, switching EITHER the city lights OR the sidemarker bulbs on a Rabbit to LEDs will not trip the error signal and turn off the entire circuit, but switching both will cause it to shut off....
There are four circuits on US mk5 VWs that work that way (three exterior, one interior),
where two low wattage bulbs share one CEC circuit.
(1) Front left city light / left side marker light, (2) front right city light / right side marker light,
(3) two license plate lights and (4) two footwell lights (if equipped).
In those four cases, each circuit feeds two 5W bulbs, and the circuit is
programmed to continue to operate if only one stock incandescent bulb remains functioning.
i.e. with stock bulbs, only one is needed to keep these circuits alive.
In stock form, both incandescent bulbs must fail before a lamp out is triggered.
So if you change only one of the two to LED, the remaining incandescent bulb
continues to provide enough current draw to keep the controller happy, as you describe.

All other exterior lamps have higher draw bulbs (more than 10W) and
dedicated circuits for each individual bulb.
i.e. there is no second bulb on any individual turn signal circuit to keep the controller happy,
left front, left rear, right front and right rear are all separate discrete circuits.

BTW the mk5 does not have a traditional turn signal flasher, the CEC digitally provides the flashing function.
i.e. Electronic LED Flasher replacement is not an option on our cars.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrillyPop View Post
... And wiring in a small resistor is definitely not a difficult task, but it does make it "not plug-and-play," like you said....
Difficult - no. Certainly it is possible to modify the wiring with a load resistor safely,
but anytime you cut / splice exterior wiring, you run the risk of moisture getting into the new connection,
which over time will corrode and cause the circuit to malfunction.
Care must be taken to seal it up good to avoid future issues.
Although it is possible to tap into the turn signal circuits in the interior at or near the CEC,
that adds a little more complexity to the task (interior trim removal)
and makes safely placing the heat generating resistor a little more of a challenge.
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Old 02-04-2011, 11:38 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrillyPop View Post
Good info JetTurbo. Most circuits have a range of impedences that it will tolerate, so you may be able to get away without the canbus fix. For example, switching EITHER the city lights OR the sidemarker bulbs on a Rabbit to LEDs will not trip the error signal and turn off the entire circuit, but switching both will cause it to shut off. And wiring in a small resistor is definitely not a difficult task, but it does make it "not plug-and-play," like you said.

OP, why do you want LEDs in that particular socket???

my BMW(s) all have/had them and just used to the clear, bright crisp colouration and intensity. My son, whom I bought this car for was asking if it could be done. The bimmers don't have the strict tolerance levels that vw requires and the spare sets of 1156 led did not work on the rabbit, yet performed fine in the bimmer. strange, went back to original and circuit fine. scoured the 'net for error/free can bus (which indeed are out there) but seem to be not mainstream items as JetTurbo suggested as well. I do not want to spend the money to remove/replace the ecodes to gti hids, but again, the hids are no comparison (from a safety perspective) as compared to halogen.

Without access to vag com (yep - did the map thing on this site - reached out to a person here in Jax - no response).... so, w/o vag com I can't really do much. I'd love to simply buy GTI HID's or a suitable aftermarket HID headlight, but even that comes with a price - it is not plug-n-play. Not sure why.

JetTurbo - I have studied your posts for the past 2 weeks, and you have a good grasp on this matter, in your experience to date - if it we you - where would you go to purchase the easiest direct replacement headlight to go from halogen to hid. The reason is that the gti hid's offer better lighting, (EURO CUTOFF preferred) and more "custom" options that I believe my son would love. I would love it because even after upgrading the h7 low beams to GB "night-breakers" - it's still crap as compared to 4350 kelvin hid.

Great forum so for - tons of good info. I am a long time member of e90post.com btw. thanks agin for the great insight.

so far, I love the rabbit. last vw I owned was a 71 vw bus. long story on that one................

cheers
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Old 02-04-2011, 03:44 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madmanhiker View Post
Without access to vag com (yep - did the map thing on this site - reached out to a person here in Jax - no response).... so, w/o vag com I can't really do much. I'd love to simply buy GTI HID's or a suitable aftermarket HID headlight, but even that comes with a price - it is not plug-n-play. Not sure why.

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You can certainly wire resistors into a HID kit, put that in an aftermarket headlight with projector housings, and have your euro cut-off with excellent light output. You will have a bulb out, but it's really not a big deal... Even with a VAGCOM, you'd need to have a highline CECM in order to code it to take aftermarket (or GTI) HIDs.
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Old 02-04-2011, 03:46 PM   #7
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I believe the GTI has a amber shield over the turn signal bulb. So simply replacing the bulb wont get you a different color blinker you'd have to get rid of the shield somehow.
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Old 02-04-2011, 05:54 PM   #8
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...
JetTurbo - I have studied your posts for the past 2 weeks, and you have a good grasp on this matter, in your experience to date - if it we you - where would you go to purchase the easiest direct replacement headlight to go from halogen to hid.
While I have been studying Bentley shop manual diagrams
to get a better understanding of the mk5 electrical stuff,
I pretty much stay as close as I can to original equipment.
Long term reliability and viability are my foremost concerns.
Swapping incandescent to LEDs on front city light, front side marker lights, license lights
or swapping interior lights is one thing.
I would not consider changing tail light bulbs to LED,
the lenses and reflectors on incandescent tails are more sophisticated than the others.
LED specific fixtures are better suited for tails.

Pretty much feel the same way about HIDs.
If the fixture is not designed specifically for HID bulbs, I would not consider it.
i.e. For HIDs, I would only go with an oe setup, which is complex and costly to retrofit.
Lots of posts on that topic already.

I will leave it to others to advise on other forms of HID swaps.
I personally would not consider retrofitting a HID bulb
into a projector designed for a halogen bulb.
But then, I have been working with HID light sources
in non-automotive projection systems all my professional life,
so I have formed more than a few biases over the years.
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Old 02-04-2011, 05:57 PM   #9
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I believe the GTI has a amber shield over the turn signal bulb. So simply replacing the bulb wont get you a different color blinker you'd have to get rid of the shield somehow.
Exactly, the stock turn signal bulb is clear, as shown in the above pictures.
Disassembly required to change color ...
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Old 02-04-2011, 06:09 PM   #10
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so that would require putting the headlight in the oven, heat it up, crack the housing, remove the amber shield and resealing the housing back ....yikes...uhhhh..i think i'll pass..

does anyone have a pic of what the headlight housing looks like open???
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Old 02-04-2011, 06:11 PM   #11
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hmmm guess it's a bit hard to convert our turn signals to LED. i was toying with the idea myself
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Old 02-22-2011, 08:41 PM   #12
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Arrow potential LED bulb for HID fixture turn signals

Finally tripped across an LED that may fit the HID fixture turn signals.
Last night I ordered a pair of BAY9S H21W 64136 bulbs with 9 SMD LEDs in a tower config.
They are not error canceling and I do not expect to them to function normally without modification to the circuit.
First I want to see if they will fit properly. I am concerned the increased diameter of the LED may be a problem.

LED BAY9S H21W 64136


Should take a couple of weeks to arrive, will report back when I get them.
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Old 02-22-2011, 09:24 PM   #13
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Old 03-11-2011, 05:59 PM   #14
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updates?
Received the BAY9S 64136 LED bulbs.
They are a bit bigger than the stock envelope.
I test fit them and and they did fit the socket, cleared the opening, and the socket locked to the fixture as it should.

Of course, as expected, it tripped the lamp out.
Taking a day off on the 18th to add a resistor (and some other mods I have planned).
Stock bulb is back in for now

BAY9S 64136 LED - stock BAY9S H21W 64136 incandescent halogen - BAY9S 64136 LED


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Old 03-11-2011, 06:45 PM   #15
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Post Backup function: Front Parking Light as Side Turn Signals

BTW a while back I had set the parking lights to act as backup turn signals.
not backup as in reverse lights, backup as in redundant / spare
changed this value to 100%


I thought that meant they would work all the time as backup
(rear fog backup parking light function works that way).

Because nothing changed at the time, I thought it just did not work.
I was wrong, I just did not understand what it is supposed to do
Discovered it today.

When I triggered the bulb out on the front left turn signal with the LED bulb,
much to my surprise, the left front parking light and side marker
took over the left flasher's signaling duties.
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Old 03-21-2011, 03:11 PM   #16
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Hey JetTurbo, you seem pretty knowledgable in this area and maybe you can help me out. I have a 2009 Jetta TDI and have been looking for error free white LED turn signals. Do you know if the ones you posted would work with my Jetta ? And have you located a website where they are avaliable ??

Thank You
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Old 03-24-2011, 09:33 PM   #17
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Hey JetTurbo, you seem pretty knowledgable in this area and maybe you can help me out. I have a 2009 Jetta TDI and have been looking for error free white LED turn signals. Do you know if the ones you posted would work with my Jetta ?
If you have stock halogen headlight fixtures - no.
That LED bulb only fits the stock HID fixtures.
And it still does not satisfy the Cent Elec controller, so the circuit shuts down.
I had no luck adding a resistor, but I may have damaged something along the way,
I had a hell of a time getting the stock bulb to work after the LED test.
Wish I could find an error canceling version of that LED bulb, but no luck so far.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Krzysiuu View Post
And have you located a website where they are avaliable ??

Thank You
Sorry, no.
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Old 03-24-2011, 09:38 PM   #18
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Hmm okay... I found another type of 1156 on another forum that might work so we'll see how that goes.
Thanks anyways !
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Old 12-25-2012, 10:33 PM   #19
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bumping an old thread

my left turn signal just gave up on me today...

anyone ever found out if there will ever be an LED version for this bulb H21W (64136)??
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Old 12-26-2012, 08:02 AM   #20
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bumping an old thread

my left turn signal just gave up on me today...

anyone ever found out if there will ever be an LED version for this bulb H21W (64136)??
Seems there are error free versions of this bulb now. Couple of sources ...

description: BA9S Hyper 5 5050 SMD LED GP-BA9S-CSMD-5W
pricing: HIDLightsUSA.com. BA9S pricing

High Powered 5050 3 Chip SMT Array - Outfitted with Canbus Bulb-Out Warning Cancellation Chip
(this web site kinda sucks, best way to find the bulb is go to the link,
copy the first 4 or 5 words from the description above, and search the page for it.)
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Old 12-26-2012, 11:40 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JetTurbo View Post
Seems there are error free versions of this bulb now. Couple of sources ...

description: BA9S Hyper 5 5050 SMD LED GP-BA9S-CSMD-5W
pricing: HIDLightsUSA.com. BA9S pricing

High Powered 5050 3 Chip SMT Array - Outfitted with Canbus Bulb-Out Warning Cancellation Chip
(this web site kinda sucks, best way to find the bulb is go to the link,
copy the first 4 or 5 words from the description above, and search the page for it.)
Thanks for the link. How are the LED's so far, do they run pretty good? on a scale of 1-10 being 10 as good and 1 as bad, what would be your review on this LED?

Also, looks like they only come in white...no amber color.
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Old 12-26-2012, 12:14 PM   #22
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Thanks for the link. How are the LED's so far, do they run pretty good? on a scale of 1-10 being 10 as good and 1 as bad, what would be your review on this LED?
Effectively, they were not as bright. Pulled them out and went back to stock.
So I guess I would rate them 1. I was not running the error canceling ones I linked,
I tried the older lower cost ones with more LEDs an NO error canceling and an added resistor,
I posted about in March 2011.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTI4John74 View Post
Also, looks like they only come in white...no amber color.
Unlike mk5s with halogen headlight fixtures (different turn signal bulb altogether),
the directional signal bulb in a mk5 with HIDs is clear / white.

US mk5 GTi (HID equipped) original equipment turn signal bulb


The amber for the front directionals comes from a lens in the lighting fixture.
And the autolumination ones are available in amber, not that they are needed.
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