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APR K03 EGT's and Component Protection

sloMk5

sloMk5

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2007 GTI
Arin@APR said:
With APR software? Nope. If EGT's get too hot, there are routines to protect the turbo and engine components. The particular routine is called Component Protection. Essentially it will alter your AFR to increase fuel till EGT's sustain. On the dyno we are able to hold the engine at peak HP and watch EGT's rise. This can last as long as 5 minutes on the dyno! We have calibrated component protection to essentially make EGT's sustain at a set level that the turbo manufacturer says is safe for long periods of time.
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What's too hot?

What does BW specify for sustained EGT?

What temp does the software target when component protection kicks in?

What does it do if it can't achieve that temperature?

Thanks:)
 
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07Noside

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I'd like to hear so as well except from an engineer not Arin or Keith who know as much as your average car salesman. "i'll tell you anything to get you to buy....."

Also keep in mind the vag com EGT mes block is some what innacurate if your ecu is not stock.
 
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07Noside

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Viking445 said:
You just couldn't hold back could ya Noside?
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Its a concerning subject that has been thrown back and fourth, I would like to see what individuals actually believe to be a safe threshhold and why, when have I not been in a thread that was not some what interesting? :thumbsup:
 
Chris@RT

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No one has been able to produce any actual evidence of limits from BW, the closest was a note saying that SUSTAINED (not peak SUSTAINED) egt limits were 1040C I believe. Which means that peak you can hit even higher but that is all the recommend for extended periods of time, but there isn't even info that has ever been presented on how long that is. 30 seconds? 30 minutes? 30 days?

There has also to date not been one person who has come forward with a failure related to EGTs (or anything I have seen other then it just being defective) from any tuner out there.

As for the difference between pre and post turbine readings? I have seen it show anywhere from the same to over 200C difference and even hotter post turbine if the 02 sensor that is giving the reading is retaining heat and slow to respond. Once the vehicle is modified in anyway trying to use calculated EGTs is out the window. Trying to use post EGTs at anytime is not going to tell you a damn thing since there is no set difference between the two.
 
sloMk5

sloMk5

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Tampa
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2007 GTI
Good info thanks Chris.
 
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ViRtUaLheretic

ViRtUaLheretic

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Some companies might not want to give up this info as this is starting to dig into their custom configurations, and if a company does post it could start a flame war between vendors comparing what is "safe"....

**I'm not hating on anybody or picking sides (I hope it doesn't turn into that type of thread). Id like to know this information as well, I like to dig in and hear some more of the technical aspects of the inner workings.
 
07Noside

07Noside

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ViRtUaLheretic said:
**I'm not hating on anybody or picking sides (I hope it doesn't turn into that type of thread). Id like to know this information as well, I like to dig in and hear some more of the technical aspects of the inner workings.
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Bump! :smile:
If a company is so quick to throw EGT's as being a concern when looking at another companies logs, I'd like to hear what they have to back those statements up.
 
Lucidity

Lucidity

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07Noside said:
I'd like to hear so as well except from an engineer not Arin or Keith who know as much as your average car salesman. "i'll tell you anything to get you to buy....."

Also keep in mind the vag com EGT mes block is some what innacurate if your ecu is not stock.
Click to expand...

You forgot to add flame suit on... :thumbsup:
 
07Noside

07Noside

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Lucidity said:
You forgot to add flame suit on... :thumbsup:
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why bother, they aren't trying to sell anything here, I doubt we'll even get a reply. Or their reading up on the big book of marketing schemes and typing up something to completely avoid the direct question like they do in every other situation lol.
 
X

xplicit

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07Noside said:
I'd like to hear so as well except from an engineer not Arin or Keith who know as much as your average car salesman. "i'll tell you anything to get you to buy....."

Also keep in mind the vag com EGT mes block is some what innacurate if your ecu is not stock.
Click to expand...

:clap:
 
sloMk5

sloMk5

___________
Location
Tampa
Car(s)
2007 GTI
Here's the response from the thread the quote in the OP is from. I linked it to this thread so hopefully we get some good discussion going.

Arin@APR said:
Borg Warner turbos of the OEM variety meant for gasoline engines are typically rated for 1050 C operation. Our goal in calibration is to not allow the system to exceed this value. We use peak-power long-duration holds on the dyno until the temperatures stabilize at a value equal to or less than 1050
C. This is not the temperature we are trying to avoid during a single dyno run. This is the value we are trying to stay below even when running long-term at a steady state condition of peak power. Please keep in mind that we are using independent temperature instruments in the exhaust stream to verify the modeled EGT value in the ECU once we start changing equipment on the vehicle. Also please keep in mind 1050 C is not the exact limit of failure meaning if you cross that line, failure will occur. 1050 C is the limit Borg Warner has tested though multiple heat cycles to be the safe limit it feels should not be exceded over and over.

The line between acceptable and dangerous falls in not exceeding the manufacturers recommendations for the equipment. This is done not just to consider the situation for a single dyno run or even a full track day, but for the purpose of not exceeding a value that has been tested to avoid long-term damage as a result of the type of temperature-based fatigue cycling that you would see in an automotive engine. In addition, we are obviously trying to avoid the melting points of the metals of the engine components.
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Like I posted in the other thread, the questions that come to mind other than the last one in the OP are how do your own EGT readings compare to what the ECU is coming up with? And what does 1050 *C translate to in measuring block 112-4?

Thanks:thumbsup:
 
C

Cryptic1911

Go Kart Champion
Location
CT
Car(s)
2008.5 GTI
this is why I put in an EGT gauge in a bung right after the turbo. I don't know what the cutoff is, but I dont think mine has ever been over 900c even on long pulls.
 
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