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WHITE JAMES: Suspension & Wheel Reviews

Jester_Fu

My Name is Angela.
Location
Swidneh
Car(s)
Daytona Grey TT RS
You think Canterbury Rd is bad? Parramatta Rd near Auburn is like driving on solid sandstone hand carved by angry drunk convicts over 100 years ago.

But the stretch after Stacey street toward the home makers center is just damn awful on Canterbury. It's like NSW: Screw us with public transport, screw us with roads, screw us with taxes, screw us with over regulation... love it. Another 12 months of this and i'm moving to Victoria. Yep, that's how bad it's getting.
 

WhiteJames

Fun Nazi
Location
Sydney
Car(s)
VW Golf GTI MKV
Jester_Fu:

You're dead right about Parramatta Road, Auburn and its crap quality of build. Haven't had the pleasure of running the Mark 6 GTI with DCC in different modes on this roadway. It certainly wasn't pleasant on either the Eibach ProKit/Koni FSD or KW V3 kits. In addition: The concrete on Fairford Road near Canterbury Road, Bankstown - Padstow is when I changed from Sport to Normal to Comfort. Those waves & uneven joints in the concrete aren't performance car friendly.

See below for further Mark 6 GTI - v - Golf R impressions.

Same topic is getting very heated over on VW Watercooled.


Cheers
WJ
 

WhiteJames

Fun Nazi
Location
Sydney
Car(s)
VW Golf GTI MKV
Perhaps the Golf R –v- Golf GTI review should be put within a certain context. The best way to do this is to rehash my final comments to Gerald Slaven Volkswagen, Canberra - Sales Manager Phil Fairhall:


“Phil. I’m not concerned with the extra speed or acceleration of the new Golf R. It would not concern me if the Golf R had the same motor as the GTI and was half a second slower to 100kph. I like this vehicle for its new generation AWD feeling and its fine chassis balance front to rear making for a very fluid handling & drive experience. It also rides a lot better than I expected. Not concerned with features like launch control as I’d never use them. Really enjoyed the more balance chassis feeling over the front heavy Golf GT, which makes tourist drive a greater pleasure.”


Basically looking for a vehicle with performance consummate with a Ford XR6 or Holden SV6 six cylinder with the fuel economy similar to a Toyota Corolla. Not considering any performance tuning on the ECU or motor & certainly not looking to be the fastest to 100kph. The vehicle will be used for a combination of some city use, and frequent longer distance trips from Sydney to Canberra & Sydney to Queensland with a combination of freeway – highway – B-grade roadway – tourist - routes. Not interested in doing any track days or heading out to the drag strip for that matter.


I’d prefer the low end punch & usability of the Mark 6 GTI/Tiguan EA888 motor mated to the AWD drive train & chassis balance of the Golf R is a clear indication of the strengths and weaknesses of each vehicle within the above context. In other words: I rate them as about even. Not looking to race this vehicle, but rather drive the vehicle. Perhaps this has been overlooked by readers of this review – faster is not necessarily better when it comes to my purchase decision – driveability – handling – ride - is certainly an important factor that I place a great weight on when choosing a new vehicle.


The comments made about the Volkswagen Tiguan 125TSI are valid in that the Tiguan is the best value AWD Volkswagen on the market due to: its AWD system – EA888 motor – price. There will also be another VAG competitor with this type of drive-train combination in early 2012; albeit in a hatchback variant: The Audi A3 Quattro (AWD).


The Audi should not have a KO4 turbo or associated lag that comes with a larger turbo, which will aid usability & driveability. No big brakes either – these are not likely to be missed as my old MKV GTI vehicle’s brake pads were only half done prior to sale at 3.5 years / 47,000km. Not missing the EA113 belt driven motor with the cam follower & fuel metering issues; which is likely to be seen for the last time in the Golf R after being put to rest. The Audi A3 Quattro AWD will offer the same or a similar chassis balance to the Golf R – making for a nice fluid drive and high grip levels. Alternatively: Not sure I’d buy an Audi as my workmates would expect to me shout at the pub all the time – it’s that brand image thing I guess.


Grip Levels:


Having covered 3,500km in 3.5 weeks in the new Mark 6 Golf GTI with 95% of driving on highway – freeway – B-grade country roadways – tourist routes – mountain climbs – in all types of weather conditions, not once have I seen the stability ESC light flash up on the dash display. Even on the tight damp 15kph corners ascending up the Macquarie Pass of Kangaroo Valley, NSW. Of course, running in the GTI, I have not gone out of my way to provoke wheel slip – but I have driven off the beaten track in damp / wet / foggy conditions with warning signs indicating ‘caution – black ice on roadway’. Some of the B-grade mountain passes had 20kph corners with 100kph speed limits coupled with damp roadway conditions.


In contrast: my old Mark V GTI with 5-6K spent on improving the suspension & wheel/tyre combination to provide the best possible grip that the MKV GTI could deliver (upgraded suspension is a good form of traction control) on std power. The old MKV GTI would have had ESC cutting in countless times over these drives in these types of conditions. The Mark 6 GTI is way superior in this regard. The addition of the EDL (slow-speed) and XDS (higher speeds) electronic differential has put the Mark 6 GTI into another league over the old Mark 5 GTI for public roadway driving, esp. when the weather turns sour. The driver can feel the electronic EDL/XDS diff working its magic more so in the dry in tight corners & the electronic diff wizardry does not eliminate the FWD bum-dragger feel of the Golf GTI. This is important to note this when considering my earlier remarks when I say that grip levels between the Mark 6 GTI and Golf R for public roadway use are much closer than they were for the older MKV GTI and Golf R32 models. In terms of driveline feel & chassis balance: the Golf R wins hands down.


Well informed debate is encouraged.


Cheers
WJ
 

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WhiteJames

Fun Nazi
Location
Sydney
Car(s)
VW Golf GTI MKV
HPA Motorsport & ST Suspensions (aka KW)

HPA Motorsport have the HPA Motorsport KW Street Handling System (SHS) coilover kit available for the Mark 6 Golf R 4 motion.

http://www.hpamotorsport.com/shs1.htm

KW have also acquired American brand ST Suspension and looks like they are rebranding ST Suspension Coilovers with a little tuning help from HPA regarding Volkswagen/Audi vehicles. Could prove to be the same product for cheaper!

See link:

http://www.hpamotorsport.com/st.htm

Cheers
WJ
 

WhiteJames

Fun Nazi
Location
Sydney
Car(s)
VW Golf GTI MKV
EA888: Improvements to fuel pump

Service Training

Self-Study Program 824803

The Volkswagen 2.0 Litre

Chain-Driven TSI Engine



High Pressure Pump


The high-pressure pump produces a maximum
pressure of 2175.5 psi (150 bar). The fuel pressure
requested by the engine control module is adjusted
by Fuel Pressure Regulator Valve N276. The pressure
is regulated between 725.1 psi (50 bar) and 2175.5
psi (150 bar) depending on engine requirements.


The high-pressure pump now has its own pressure
limiting valve.
This valve opens at approximately 2900
psi (200 bar) and admits pressure into the pump
chamber. Previously, pressure was discharged into
the low-pressure circuit.
Excessively high-pressures
can build up in overrun or when the engine heat
soaks after shut-off.


The pressure pulsations in the low-pressure circuit
are reduced by a damping element integrated in the
pump.



High-Pressure Regulation


Fuel pressure and fuel quantity are regulated by Fuel
Pressure Regulator Valve N276. The signal from Fuel
Pressure Sensor G247 is used by the engine control
module as a parameter. This sensor is located in the
fuel rail.


Power demand has been reduced significantly
through a newly designed fuel pressure regulating
valve and associated control concept.


At the start of delivery, Fuel Pressure Regulating
Valve N276 is activated only very briefly. The intake
valve closes, fuel pressure builds up, and fuel
delivery immediately begins.

There have been several improvements to the pump on the EA888 motor. Makes for more precise throttle applications making it easier to balance the chassis on the throttle.

More info on VW Watercooled re: Golf GTI (MK6) -v- Golf R

http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/f112/golf-r-v-golf-gti-45833-28.html

Cheers.
WJ
 

Capercat

It's a chuck-about
Location
Location :)
You think Canterbury Rd is bad? Parramatta Rd near Auburn is like driving on solid sandstone hand carved by angry drunk convicts over 100 years ago.

But the stretch after Stacey street toward the home makers center is just damn awful on Canterbury. It's like NSW: Screw us with public transport, screw us with roads, screw us with taxes, screw us with over regulation... love it. Another 12 months of this and i'm moving to Victoria. Yep, that's how bad it's getting.

One less nose heavy R32 making the problem worse. :wink:
 

WhiteJames

Fun Nazi
Location
Sydney
Car(s)
VW Golf GTI MKV
Dynamic Chassis Control

Dynamic Chassis Control can be split into 3 parts:

1. Steering resistance.
2. Dynamic control function.
3. Comfort – Normal – Sport - modes.

1. Steering Resistance: Steering increases with speed as per the non-DCC Golf GTI. After having driven over 4,500km in my GTI equipped with DCC, with about 90% of driving out in the country & mountains, I generally stick to DCC -Normal mode for the most part. The Sport mode is really a plus in the tight twisty mountain routes. Reason being is that at lower speeds the standard Comfort/Normal steering is a too light – that is around 50-80kph. The DCC Comfort/Normal mode makes the GTI difficult to place on the roadway when snaking up and down the tight s-bends at lower speeds. This can be annoying and not as confidence inspiring, leaving the driver having to be very light on steering inputs, in addition to feeling like the chassis is up to the task, but not the steering. Sport mode’s heavy resistance steering makes the GTI much easier to place on the roadway, the driver is able to concentrate on smoothing out the bends with less effort with direct & responsive steering. This makes driving on these types of roadways more enjoyable – brings that element of go-cart accuracy into the drive experience. After a couple of month of ownership, DCC - Sport setting on the highway is not always actively sought, as the lighter Comfort/Sport steering makes for a relaxing drive on the freeway. Sport mode is always chosen for Sporty driving environments like mountain hill climbs. I get the impression that the engineers at Volkswagen have really hit the mark with the Dynamic Chassis Control option.

2. Adaptive control function: Basically, regardless of the mode that the DCC is put into, the electronics determine what the exact amount of damping is required for every occasion. For example: In DCC – Sport: the chassis is stiff until a pot hole is struck mid corner, which in this case, the DCC will soften momentarily to absorb the shock of the pot hole, offering compliance to prevent the pot hole from unsettling the chassis and punting the vehicle offline and into the nearby bushes. Dynamic computer controlled suspension keeps the GTI on course sitting flat through turns all the time. Similar thing with series of pitted and scarred roadwork patches – the driver expects the series of patchwork undulations to unsettle the ride in a straight line, but the DCC adapts almost instantaneously to soften up the series of pits and patchwork in the roadway. The vice versa is also true when DCC is in comfort mode. Comfort mode at 50kph is much softer than Comfort mode at 110kph and any large hits struck along the roadway are stiffened up momentarily to prevent under-damping or hitting the bump stops. As stated before: Adaptive dampers manage to be both supple and firm in almost every instance. This really improves the ownership experience and I never tire of driving the GTI in any type of conditions.

3. Comfort – Normal – Sport modes: This is the basic variation in the chassis tune. The three modes of Comfort – Normal – Sport are distinct from each other. Initially the variations in chassis tune didn’t feel like a huge difference, and are not likely to on a short demo test drive, but after over 4,500km the differences in the DCC become stark.

Cheers
WJ
 

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WhiteJames

Fun Nazi
Location
Sydney
Car(s)
VW Golf GTI MKV
KW V3 -v- DCC Suspension

DCC is providing an improvement in handling and comfort at the same time – not an easy thing to achieve when conventional suspension set-ups. The ride of the previous MKV GTI on similar roadways with aftermarket KW V3 coilover suspension on almost full soft & H&R sway bars was nuggetty and stiff legged at very low speeds offering a very brittle feeling on 18” huffs. There seemed to be no way to ride the old Mark 5 GTI of that brittle feeling. The sensation of a brittle ride is never the case with DCC on the new Mark 6 GTI, despite the Mark 6 DCC GTI also riding 18” wheels. This makes me very happy.

Cheers
WJ
 

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manol

Professional Jerk
Location
Melbourne, Australia
Car(s)
GTI 2.0 TFSI
Why do you keep ruining these pages and making them way too large/big by repeating the same pictures of the R and other dealership cars?

I mean, I appreciate the information and all, but its making it a little hard to read/navigate.
 

dainese

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
Sydney
Car(s)
2004 MkIV R32
Why do you keep ruining these pages and making them way too large/big by repeating the same pictures of the R and other dealership cars?

I mean, I appreciate the information and all, but its making it a little hard to read/navigate.

omg, wake up on wrong side of bed or something?
 

WhiteJames

Fun Nazi
Location
Sydney
Car(s)
VW Golf GTI MKV
Have a new computer with new photoshop program - playing with the picture size - can't seem to reduce them to make the pics fit in standard thread format.
As for pics: Helps break up the reader's focus for a short time. Everybody loves pics.

******************************************************************

The ride in the Golf GTI exhibits more bounce than the Golf R, reason being (1) Its lighter; (2) Being more of a lead tipped arrow, the springs must have enough spring rate to accommodate a full complement of passengers & luggage. When there are no rear passengers or other type of load to weigh down the rear of the GTI, it feels a bit like a Ute with no load in the rear – a bit bouncy. The GTI is more adjustable on the throttle with the lighter rear end and slightly softer tune of suspension – it’s still harder work or more challenging to extract the best from it from a driver’s point of view ... slow in and a wide apex is the style of driving the GTI favours.

The Golf R on 18” with non-DCC STD suspension that I sampled in the Golf R –v- Golf GTI thread was extremely well sorted as an OE suspended vehicle. Golf R has a fine compromise between comfort & handling. You can feel the extra weight in the tighter corners & it takes a bit of going or a few gear down-changes to get it going, but overall a very well balanced vehicle offering a fluid ride. DCC on the Golf R will add a bit more dynamic polish when desired coupled with firmer steering when in sport mode – vice versa when DCC is in comfort mode. Overall, I wouldn’t be too concerned if your Golf R doesn’t have DCC. Like Bi-Xenon lights, nice to have, but not essential.
For the serious track day enthusiast – I’d run the same or similar suspension as Guy Harding is doing with his Golf R: Competition type coilovers, aftermarket solid adjustable sway bars, Whiteline polyurethane bushes in lieu of OE rubber bushes; and if the budget allows – lightweight wheels, twice piece brakes, lighter callipers. This set up may be a bit taxing on ride comfort for everyday use or long country trips.

Cheers.
WJ
 

WhiteJames

Fun Nazi
Location
Sydney
Car(s)
VW Golf GTI MKV
2010 - BFYB title goes to Golf GTI:

My Mark 6 Golf GTI has close to 7500km on the odometer in just under 3 months. Not a drop of oil used to date. Bear in mind that my GTI spends 90% of its time on country/tourist/freeway drives. The absence of incessant warm up and cool down phases of regular short city trips would also aid in keeping oil consumption to a minimum.

GTI recently saw a longer interstate trip to South East Queensland. Had a few drives around the Gold Coast Hinterland – Mt Tamborine, Springbrook, and the northern NSW Tweed Valley inland routes snaking behind the Hinze Dam to Byron Bay.

Saw oil temps reach as high as 114 degrees Celsius going up Mt Tamborine on a 20 degree Gold Coast winters day. Highest oil temp recorded to date. Hit 111 degrees consistently traversing from Gold Coast up the winding roads to Springbrook.

Made a few more observations in the last 2,500km of touring from Sydney to Queensland Border:

EA888 TSI Mark 6 GTI motor, although more doughy with lower compression than the Mark 5 (EA113) GTI motor, the EA888 offers greater refinement and balance in the higher rev range. The earlier EA113 FSI motor in the MKV GTI had a greater NA feel to it with higher compression rate, but also offered greater vibration higher in the rev range. The EA888 has newly designed balance shafts on each side of the motor to take out some vibration from the motor, which is noticeable higher in the rev range.

The new Mark 6 GTI has inherited the intermittent squeak from the passenger’s seat base with no occupant to weigh the front left seat down – only seems to occur on rougher B-grade routes where chassis flex may occur. The B-pillar vertical plastic sheath on nearside left interior has made that infamous clicking sound several times in 7500km – not sure if it occurs with chassis flex or whether it’s a result of having the interior temperature and humidity varied against the outside temperature and humidity. The change in temps and humidity may have an effect on drying out the plastic interior. Although the Mark 6 chassis is stiffer than the outgoing MK5 Golf chassis, flex in the chassis may have moved to another location of the Golf hatchback. This could be a problem for both the GTI and Golf R.

Oh yeah – the sun visor cover for the small face mirror often rattles when closed with the sun driver’s sun visor pulled down. The cruise control, when decreased in single digits with separate prongs on the stalk, km/h reverts up to the 5th digit when going down to the zero digit (i.e. 85 – 84 – 83 – 82 – 81 - 80 – 85) – only a minor concern. Finally – exhaust scavenging is still apparent – more so under load between 2400 – 2600rpm and not really an issue on protracted highway cruises/long trips, unlike some drone from the Golf R on the highway.

Fuel consumption for journey from South Coast Sydney to Surfer Paradise and return on the Pacific Hwy – door to door – averaged 6.75 litres per 100km, showing an improvement on the older MKV GTI. Considering that Mark 6 GTI motor was still a bit tight, running on less slippery mineral break-in oil and not strictly driving for best economy in varying the revs from time to time as the TSI is still fairly new. A strict economy run in the old MKV GTI with DSG in drive mode and using Pacific Hwy and alternative New England Hwy had a best of 7.0 litres per 100km door to door for the same trip. Mark 6 GTI already showing an improvement in economy over the previous model GTI. Hopefully a full economy run will yield @ 6.5/6.6 litres per 100km for the same trip once completely run-in and using super slippery full synthetic oil after 15,000km service. Fuel consumption working the motor harder up Springbrook Mountain Drive and Mount Tamborine in Queensland had the GTI’s fuel consumption reading showing @ 9.0 litres per 100kms, which is very good indeed imo.

My thoughts on Dynamic Chassis Control (DCC) after 7,500km including an interstate journey:

Well worth the money for a street driven vehicle. For competition, you’d want something a bit stiffer in spring & damper rate. I used Normal mode for entire trip from Sydney to Queensland. Mt Tamborine climb had Normal and Sport modes as roadways further up Mt Tamborine can be quite rough in texture.

The drive from Gold Coast (Nerang) to Springbrook Mountain involved having the DCC in normal mode for first half of the mountain climb as a test on driver satisfaction, enjoyment and feeling. After the first half of the Springbrook Mountain climb of this fantastic route, I opted for DCC Sport mode. The DCC steering mode in Normal to too light to make for a cohesive drive – the driver and Golf GTI failing to gel with a certain type of awkwardness when climbing the hilly bends (think NSW Macquarie Pass near Wollongong, only longer and more flowing) with the GTI having a tad too much body lean at the lower speeds and too much driver effort required into lighter steering around the closely knit string of bends leading up the valleys.

DCC into Sport mode at half way was spot on in terms of chassis adjustment for the climb up to Springbrook in Queensland’s South East Hinterland. In DCC Sport the GTI sits flat on its springs, EDL/XDS unobtrusively aids the punch out of tight corners when driving responsibly within limits smoothly and consistently stringing a series of bends together. ESC does not cut in, rather acting in an unobtrusive way (Golf R has EDL at the front for lower speeds; but not XDL). The larger Mark 6 rear sway bar (MK6 24mm –v- 22mm MKV) also aids in reducing understeer. The added weight and directness of DCC Sport steering provides for that direct connection between driver and vehicle, and coupled with the flat stance of the chassis, really does transform the drive experience.

Alternatively: The drive from Gold Coast via – Nerang – Murwillumbah – Byron Bay – the hinterland route through the Tweed Valley had DCC in a combo of Sport and Normal - mostly Sport with me putting up with a terse ride on the rougher sections of flowing bends leading up to the Queensland – NSW border just for the better driver experience; then Normal leading up to & around the township of Murwillumbah, returning to Sport out of Murwillumbah to Bryon Bay along the old Pacific hwy flowing roadways. DCC soft was used to climb Cape Bryon to Byron Bay lighthouse – that’s a rough bit of tourist roadway for a popular tourist destination.

Great thing about DCC is that it softens or hardens the damper tune according to speed. I have noticed, and it has been stated on another review on Ausmotive.com.au re: Golf R that when Dynamic Chassis
Control is in the hard Sport mode, steering kickback may occur from time to time on mid corner upsets.

I’ve experience some mild kickback on the GTI on occasions with DCC in Sport when negotiating rougher B-grade roadways. This is something that I never experienced in the old MKV GTI, despite having up to six different suspension combinations and the last of those combinations being a much firmer & stiffer KW V3 coil over suspension and H&R solid adjustable sway bars front & rear. Steering kickback does not occur when DCC is in Normal or Comfort modes – only Sport.

Amazed at how flat the GTI sits with DCC in any setting, esp. harder Sport mode, without the use of aftermarket adjustable sway bars as I had on my old MKV GTI. The aftermarket heavy duty solid sway bars really do sharpen & quicken the one wheel bumps creating a brittle type of ride over these similar routes (esp. Mt Tamborine) when fitted to the old MKV GTI. In contrast, the new Mark 6 GTI settles into uneventful slight understeer when pressing on, but offers a much improved ride. When in either Sport or Comfort mode and travelling at faster speeds, the DCC electronic dampers can be caught out in the first ¼ of a second when striking big roadway hits. In this respect, I’m guessing the more expensive & reactive Audi/HSV/Ferrari magna-tec dampers may work that bit faster than Dynamic Chassis Control.


I see the Golf GTI won the MOTOR Magazine ‘Bang for Your Buck’ 2010 title.

It’s easy to see why from the perspective of usability and all-round ability of the Mark 6 Golf GTI. Strictly speaking, the Golf R and more importantly, the Renault Clio 200 Cup would offer more bang for your buck. Problem with both the Golf R and Renault Clio is that you have to put up with each vehicles idiosyncrasies for that added performance.

In Renault Clio’s case: smaller vehicle, 3 door only, terse low speed ride, lack of low end torque, manual only option. In the Golf R’s case: Turbo lag creating lack of excitement lower down in the rev range, vehicle not being able to be used to full extent on public roadways regarding it’s very high grip threshold and peaky large turbo engine response, extra weight creating lack of adjustability on the throttle in public roadways and added fuel consumption.

Not surprising to see that Golf GTI with fast spooling small turbo'ed EA888 motor is only 0.1 seconds slower than the Golf R in the crucial 80-120kph real world performance test. 0-1.0km acceleration test has the GTI only 1 second slower than the Golf R over the full 1km run - impressive. No difference in braking ability in either stopping power or consistency between the Golf R and Golf GTI, according to MOTOR magazine. Most importantly – WJ has not rushed out to trade his White GTI in for a Golf R. Very happy with the Golf GTI ownership and drive experience, despite some minor squeaks and rattles.

Re: Idiosyncrasy of Golf R – see link from this forum:

http://www.rforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=833.15

Cheers
WJ
 

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WhiteJames

Fun Nazi
Location
Sydney
Car(s)
VW Golf GTI MKV
H&R sway bars -v- APR sway bars

In respect to the differences in the handling of the Golf R –v- Golf GTI:

The Mark 6 GTI, although a lighter vehicle than the Golf R, has a greater proportion of its front to rear balance weighted towards the front – like a lead tipped arrow. This does affect handling to a degree – more to the point the lift off oversteer. It makes for harder work on the driver’s part, but sometimes that half the fun.

Viewing the videos of the APR tuned Golf R and APR tuned Golf GTI on 2 wet laps that comprising part of the MOTOR Magazine September 2010 ‘Castrol Hot Tuner’ Edition:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PfY5NqkLcE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__UJVw0sulw

The difference between the APR tuned Golf R and APR tuned Golf GTI in the MOTOR Mag EC video is much more stark in my opinion. Reason being:

The main point of difference is that the Golf R runs H&R sway bars and the Golf R APR (aka Hotchkis) sway bars. The H&R sway bars have 2 hole adjustability and the APR bars 3 hole adjustability. The APR sway bars have a greater range of adjustability than the H&R bars by virtue of APR’s 3 hole settings. The rear of the APR sway bar can be set firmer than the H&R rear sway bar (GTI or Golf R/R32).

The video depicts both the APR tuned Golf R and Golf GTI running to much rear bar for the Eastern Creek track in the wet conditions. The lift off oversteer on trailing brake is evident in both vehicles – with the GTI suffering much worse from lift off oversteer than the Golf R. This cost both Golf R and Golf GTI time in the wet conditions. Way too much spring rate in the rear end of both vehicles.

I’ll take a punt and express an opinion that the GTI was tuned with the rear APR on full hard (3/3) with the front bar on medium setting (2/3) – this makes the GTI way too stiff in rear end in terms of sway bar spring rate relative to the Golf R.

Alternatively; The Golf R appears to have its H&R sway bars set on front soft (1/2) and rear hard (2/2), also creating lift off oversteer on approach to apex, but no where near the degree of the APR sway bar set up in the Golf GTI. The H&R sway bars a more of a Nurburgring fast flowing type of sway bar. The APR sway bars cover the whole gambit of super tight Auto-X to faster flowing depending on sway bar settings front and rear.

In the past, I have sampled a GTI and R32 with same set of KW coilovers and H&R sway bars – the R32 had better balance front to rear, but the difference was not stark as shown in the YouTube videos for Golf R and Golf GTI – both GTI and R32 handled in a very similar way, with point of difference being that the GTI turned in better but had a greater tendency to lift off oversteer – but nothing like what I see in the YouTube videos.

I have also compared two Mark 5 GTI’s with same KW coilovers – one with H&R bars (my old MKV) and another with the Hotichkis (APR) sway bars (27mm/27mm hollow from memory) with APR front set on medium and rear on hard. The APR rear sway bar set on full hard was too stiff for public roadways imo – okay for hill climbs or auto-X where speeds are generally low and plenty of rear wheel slip is required, but too stiff at lower speeds of the public roadways.

Had the Golf GTI by APR in the MOTOR Mag test run H&R sway bars front and rear or alternatively; had the APR sway bars set on full soft, I reckon the times of the APR GTI would be closer again to the Golf R, the GTI would be less prone to oversteer on corner entry – the video shows a lot of corner entry lift off oversteer.

The APR (Hotchkis) rear sway bar on full hard setting is very stiff creating a high amount of rear wheel slip – too much for Eastern Creek Raceway wet or dry imo. Once speed increases, the stiff rear sway bar makes the rear of the Golf GTI too light and too oversteer - prone as shown in the video.

The APR Golf GTI and APR Golf GTI clocked impressive times regardless of there stiff dry track tune; if the sway bars for both GTI and Golf R were set on full soft for the wet conditions, times would further improve imo. Driver Paul Morris had some difficulty with lift off oversteer as can be seen in the video.

Looks like the Rennenhaus genuine Volkswagen Racing coilovers are just rebadged KW coilovers. The Peak Performance Audi S3 also ran H&R sway bars as per APR Golf R – but Bilstein PSS10 progressive rate springs most likely let it down in the corner speed on the track – the JIC-Cross appears to be a linear rate spring, which is what you’d want for the track, with the Volkswagen Racing (KW) coilovers somewhere in between.


Update:

Looking at the MOTOR Magazine ‘Castrol Hot Tuner’ stats between the Golf R and Golf GTI confirms that I made the correct decision in sticking with the GTI. 400m V-Max and Eastern Creek V-Max has the GTI ahead of the Golf R. In other words, the GTI starts off slower from standstill or corner exit and trounces the Golf R down the straight for a higher end top speed. The big plus being the new tech EA888 motor in the GTI in either stock tune or right way up to full house stage III tune. Hell … the driver at the end of the Golf GTI YouTube video says without EDL/XDS interference, there could be another 4-5 secs to shave off the GTI’s lap time. Crikey!

The point I was making in the former post was that the Golf R tuned with the H&R sway bars was a better set-up for Eastern Creek Raceway in the wet conditions. Same applied to the rear wheel drive BMW 135i Evolve also fitted with H&R sway bars, which also posted a fabulous lap time and only 0.4 sec slower than the AWD Golf R. The APR (aka Hotchkis) sway bars set on maximum attack on the Golf GTI compromised it more so than the Golf R or BMW running H&R sway bars. Both GTI and Golf R were running the same brand of coilover suspension.

The lift off oversteer tendencies depicted in the Golf R YouTube video could sometimes occur on my old MKV Golf GTI fitted with KW V3 coilovers and small size H&R bars set up for neutral handling chassis tune (front soft/rear hard) – this state of tune could be unnerving when llift-off oversteer occurred unexpectedly on approach to the apex with some trail braking – esp. on downhill corners on public roadways. This was not so much a problem with the softer Eibach ProKit Strut Springs & Koni FSD that would lean heavily on it outside front tyre due to less spring rate of the Strut Eibach Spring. In the end, I opted to pull out the KW V3 and fit HPA Motor Sport KW SHS coilovers to re-introduce some added fun and most importantly - compliance – as it was a daily street driven MKV GTI and required additional time from grip to slip in adverse weather conditions or on rougher roadways.

Maximum spring rate, in either springs or sway bar rate, is not always a good thing when considering varied roadways and weather conditions – the YouTube video clearly shows this to be the case with both Golf R and Golf GTI. Other makes of vehicles also suffered from too firm sway bars – Subaru Liberty GT with street tyres and one of the Falcons with firm rear sway bars that caused it to lose compliance and slip into over steer too soon. Not necessary a good thing to have on a wet bumpy back public roadway imo.

The YouTube videos are great in that they show what I’ve been describing in past WJ Suspension Reviews in terms of lift off oversteer. Suspension tuning is an art in itself. I think Paul Morris did a reasonable job given the chassis set up of the two Golf’s and wet conditions - as he’s trying to drive around the idiosyncrasies of a dry track setup. The owner of the Audi S3 by Peak Performance also indicates that Luff had issues with lift off oversteer – the Audi S3 also ran H&R sway bars set for a neutral chassis tune (soft front/rear hard).

Cheers
WJ
 
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dainese

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
Sydney
Car(s)
2004 MkIV R32
White James, you would be an asset to motor magazine. you should be working there providing australia with your knowledge and opinions
 
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