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Making it *softer* (technical)

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dan98

New member
Location
UK
Hi guys,

Car is 2007 GT TDI 140.

SO, I want to do the opposite of what most people want, and make it MORE COMFORTABLE!
I'd like to keep this car for the power and speed but want it to be totally smooth for very long distances. Budget is about 1000.

The wheels have been changed from 17" alloys to 15" steels (now softer and somehow faster)

BUT

Problem 1 - the steering has gone crazy light and unsettled at high speeds because of the narrower tyres (195 vs 225) - do I need to fit a steering rack out of a non-GT to fix this?

Problem 2 - my garage tells me they can't fit non-GT dampers at the front because they are a different diameter and don't fit. What's going on here? Surely something can be done about that?

Feel free to tell me I'm wasting my time, or I'm crazy etc.:) But if anyone can offer advice how to get a non-sport ride out of a GT I'm all ears.
Cheers,
DG
 
SuperSkyline89

SuperSkyline89

Das Schiesse
Location
Earth
Car(s)
2008 CW GTI
Why run narrower tires? You could just as easily get the same width as stock with the fatter sidewall no?
 
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dan98

New member
Location
UK
Hi,
Because the wheels are 6J 15" which don't allow tyres wider than 195, according to the fitter.
Having said that I've looked around online and it seems some people say you can put a 205-215 on a 6J so that could be worth investigation - thanks
 
SuperSkyline89

SuperSkyline89

Das Schiesse
Location
Earth
Car(s)
2008 CW GTI
I didn't mean put big tires on small wheels. If you're just running steel wheels nothing is holding you to a set wheel size. I'm suggesting you find a set of 15" steel wheels that are 7.5" wide. Maybe that doesn't exist but you'd be better off to see how much of a wider wheel you can get.

As for the dampers, the bottom of the front damper is held around the diameter of the shock body so if they're not the same size you can't use them. Try softer springs. All the good suspension companies can make custom springs. Look into finding softer OEM springs first, then see if you can get a set of custom ones. Be careful how soft you go though because the car will bounce if the dampers overpower the springs' resistance.
 
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dan98

New member
Location
UK
K I see thanks - the widest steel I can find is 6.5J - may not be worth buying a whole new set for that half inch. But yeah I'll keep looking online, - maybe there's a 7J out there somewhere for a different car completely.

Re. dampers, sorry for sounding stupid, but can't the shock body also be changed, or whatever it connects to, also change that from a non-GT.. ? Willing to do whatever needs to be done.

Yep indeed springs are already done - OEM 1.9 TDI, and its bouncing on the front with the original front dampers - not too pleasant
 
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dan98

New member
Location
UK
K I see thanks - the widest steel I can find is 6.5J - may not be worth buying a whole new set for that half inch. But yeah I'll keep looking online, - maybe there's a 7J out there somewhere for a different car completely.

Re. dampers, sorry for sounding stupid, but can't the shock body also be changed, or whatever it connects to, also change that from a non-GT.. ? Willing to do whatever needs to be done.

Yep indeed springs are already done - OEM 1.9 TDI, and its bouncing on the front with the original front dampers - not too pleasant

Edit: Looks like some old Audis have 7Jx15 !
 
SuperSkyline89

SuperSkyline89

Das Schiesse
Location
Earth
Car(s)
2008 CW GTI
Re: dampers, anything's possible, it's only a matter how how far you're willing to go. Talk to your mechanic again and ask what prevents the dampers from working, and if those parts can be swapped to the ones from the other car, and if they can't what's preventing you from being ale to do that. At some point you reach a common mounting point, whether it's feasible is another issue.
 
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DUBlclutch

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
Yes Michigan the feeling forever
dan98 said:
Hi guys,

Car is 2007 GT TDI 140.

SO, I want to do the opposite of what most people want, and make it MORE COMFORTABLE!
I'd like to keep this car for the power and speed but want it to be totally smooth for very long distances. Budget is about 1000.

The wheels have been changed from 17" alloys to 15" steels (now softer and somehow faster)

BUT

Problem 1 - the steering has gone crazy light and unsettled at high speeds because of the narrower tyres (195 vs 225) - do I need to fit a steering rack out of a non-GT to fix this?

Problem 2 - my garage tells me they can't fit non-GT dampers at the front because they are a different diameter and don't fit. What's going on here? Surely something can be done about that?

Feel free to tell me I'm wasting my time, or I'm crazy etc.:) But if anyone can offer advice how to get a non-sport ride out of a GT I'm all ears.
Cheers,
DG
Click to expand...

It seems odd to me that you've downsized wheels from 17" to 15" and have decreased tire width as well. In my experience, for comfort, most decrease wheel size and increase tire width and aspect ratio. I would suggest a wider/taller tire, talk to some tire experts like www.tirerack.com.

Regarding the suspension. I've read really good things about a Koni + VWR combo. I would think the Koni's would fit, as they offer fitments for Mk5/6 Golfs, but you'd need to check with them. If VWR doesn't make a spring for you, I would suggest looking for a sport spring with a mild, ~.75" - 1", drop; Eibach perhaps? The combo should be extremely forgiving and comfortable around town, but also stiffer, performance oriented when in the twisties.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?6129491-Ride-comfort&

DUB

Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk
 
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dan98

New member
Location
UK
Yes, take your point about the tyre -
The sidewall is much taller now so that's good, but they need to be wider, I'm trying to source 7J wheels so I can go back to 215-225 width.

Re. suspension I can't see that Koni/aftermarket and lowered springs is going to be softer than stock Golf non-GT, if i'm honest.
Its only for Autobahn / Autoroute so around town or twisties isn't any concern

Thanks for the ideas tho
 
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GIACUser

Master Wallet Mechanic
Location
USA
Car(s)
MK 6 GolfR
dan98 said:
Hi guys,

Car is 2007 GT TDI 140.

SO, I want to do the opposite of what most people want, and make it MORE COMFORTABLE!
I'd like to keep this car for the power and speed but want it to be totally smooth for very long distances. Budget is about 1000.

The wheels have been changed from 17" alloys to 15" steels (now softer and somehow faster)

BUT

Problem 1 - the steering has gone crazy light and unsettled at high speeds because of the narrower tyres (195 vs 225) - do I need to fit a steering rack out of a non-GT to fix this?

Problem 2 - my garage tells me they can't fit non-GT dampers at the front because they are a different diameter and don't fit. What's going on here? Surely something can be done about that?

Feel free to tell me I'm wasting my time, or I'm crazy etc.:) But if anyone can offer advice how to get a non-sport ride out of a GT I'm all ears.
Cheers,
DG
Click to expand...


You are going against the grain on this one. The GTI aftermarket is geared toward improved performance / handling. You won't find much support for this. Now that I have stated the obvious.....

I am going to ignore your 1000 dollar budget because it seems unrealistic to me but, if I were looking to make strides in ride comfort without taking the car too far out of its original design and having to deal with new problems and possible safety concerns (those tiny tires are likely to affect braking and your ability to maintain traction in an emergency avoidance manuever-my opinion).

I would go with air suspension (research first for most comfortable), move down in sway bar size, possibly eliminate one or both (sway bars affect ride comfort considerably), go with 17 in wheels and look for 17 225/50 tires with soft side walls that also have very high quiet ratings.

This combo if done well should net you a considerably more comfortable ride than a stock GTI without compromising the overall design of the car.

Trying to get a short wheelbase car to ride like a long wheelbase cruiser is a really not in the cards. You will be able to increase comfort but there are limits to what you can do with the car you are starting with.
 
Das Gespenst

Das Gespenst

Go Kart Champion
Location
Glen Ellyn
GIACUser said:
You are going against the grain on this one. The GTI aftermarket is geared toward improved performance / handling. You won't find much support for this. Now that I have stated the obvious.....

I am going to ignore your 1000 dollar budget because it seems unrealistic to me but, if I were looking to make strides in ride comfort without taking the car too far out of its original design and having to deal with new problems and possible safety concerns (those tiny tires are likely to affect braking and your ability to maintain traction in an emergency avoidance manuever-my opinion).

I would go with air suspension (research first for most comfortable), move down in sway bar size, possibly eliminate one or both (sway bars affect ride comfort considerably), go with 17 in wheels and look for 17 225/50 tires with soft side walls that also have very high quiet ratings.

This combo if done well should net you a considerably more comfortable ride than a stock GTI without compromising the overall design of the car.

Trying to get a short wheelbase car to ride like a long wheelbase cruiser is a really not in the cards. You will be able to increase comfort but there are limits to what you can do with the car you are starting with.
Click to expand...

This thread makes no sense to me lol. But GIACUser is correct, the 15" wheels would scare the shot out of me, of course the car is going to be unsettled at highway speeds, your contact patch is almost nill and downright dangerous at high speeds. Go back to a 17" wheel with a taller sidewall and look into air suspension. I would not remove the sway bars if you are planning on driving above 60mph, if you have to change lanes rapidly there is nothing keeping the suspension geometry in line and will result in a spin out situation.

For comfort, air suspension is definitely going to be your best and safest route. However you $1000 mark will get you no where close.

Stock non GT/GTI sways
17" wheels 225/50/17 or 16"×7 wheels with 225/50/16
Air ride suspension

This combo will net you the best possible ride comfort. Please get rid of the 15" steelies, on 195 at highway (I believe you said Autobahn) speeds you are dancing with the devil bro.

And here I am trying to get 255 or 265's on my car lol.
 
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dan98

New member
Location
UK
OK thanks both for the advice.
I'm no pro at any of this, and recognise its never going to be the ultimate cruiser becasuse of what it is.
Its true that its going against the grain, most want their car harder/lower etc.etc. and I've had plenty of fun in the past putting uprated stuff on Mk1/2 GTI but I'm having to make journeys upwards of 8 hours for the foreseeable, and I'm crying out for a soft smooth ride.

The ride on a stock SE is perfect for this and I thought the Golf was a flexible enough platform to swap parts between versions cheaply and easily - if it's not the case after all then this car gets the boot.
Air suspension / aftermarket stuff or anything fancy isn't worth it. I'd sell up and get something else.

FWIW the car settles down really well between 160-180 and personally I can't tell any damn difference under hard cornering/braking right up to the limit. Its just the steering is too light (compared to the SE which works fine on 195s)
 
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DerekH

Ready to race!
Location
Ontario
A lighter wheel with less contact patch is going to make the steering feel lighter. A taller sidewall is going to make everything feel more vague. you are basically asking to get one thing without the other but they are attached. I think you would be happier with a 205 55 16 or 225 50 16. I had 195 65 15 snow tires and it is exactly as you describe. vague and with very little feedback. the stock size that came on my rabbit was a 205 55 16 and it was quite comfortable for long drives. After that i switched over to a lightweight 17 inch (rpf1) and a 225 45 17 with no notable difference on the stock suspension. the lighter wheel makes up the difference for sure. The only thing i would say you may want to consider switching suspension wise is installing rabbit swaybars. They are a little softer and will give you a little more compliance. That is all i can think of for cost effective modification that will get you some results while still being safe. I'm not sure what the UK equivalent to a rabbit is though.
 
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dan98

New member
Location
UK
Thanks Derek,
Yeah that all makes sense. I would consider going to 16s - some of the earlier GTs had these as stock. (I think that's the same as the US Rabbit)
But Tbh It seems like I'm not going to get rid of the stiff ride without spending a heap of money.
Not sure about in the US, but in the EU the newer Golfs come with the same 140 engine but in SE spec, so I'll probably have to sell mine and switch.
 
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