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F-22 Raptor program ending

conom06d

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I actually think the 22 wasn't worth the manpower nor the money spent for production. That money could have easily just been tossed back into the 15 air frame. Beef up ordinance or avionics. The 15 is still a top contender.

ehh...that platform is very old now. It is one thing for an old bomber like the b-52 cuz the ordinance carried can be upgraded significantly (i.e. cluster bombing to multiple long range guided bombs/missiles). A fighter needs to be state of the art in all areas since they may be used to dogfight (not that anyone really has an air force of any kind lol).

yeah but aren't they supposed to be phasing them out for the f-35 or what ever the jsf project is being called.

No, the JSF is retiring the F-16 for the air force, harrier for marines, and is going to accompany the F-18 for the navy. The navy version is going to be a joint attack role with the F-18

Just a wild guess, but they're probably canceling the F-22 because there's no need for having more than one platform for all of the services. I think the multi-purpose F-35 JSF is a lot more practical. It was designed to be more versatile across all the services. Most of the parts will be usable and interchangeable with different versions of the same aircraft.

Again, just a wild guess.

Edit: godsten just beat me to it.

that is the main reason they are making the JSF. Cheaper since the parts are interchangeable under most scenarios. This isnt the first time done. The F-4 Phantom II was similar in that all branches used it. Same with the F-86 Sabre if i'm not mistaken. As true as this is, it is most likely not their reasoning for canceling the F-22 early. The F-22 would be the air force support aircraft for this plane. I think they would only cancel it because they are needing to cover their asses and find money from a "not highly looked at" program somewhere. I mean....who is really going to notice, or care for that matter, if the F-22 stops being built unless you are someone who follows aviation, or browses an VW off topic forum.
 

conom06d

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I disagree with the notion that F35 can fill in the gap left by the lead fighter (F15, F22). Too small, too limited. F35 is kind of like a hot hatchback, it can do a lot of things well. While the F22 is like an all out sports car, its expensive, powerful, hopeless around town and at any other job beside going fast. But its ridiculously fast, and handle beautifully at high speed.

on the contrary...however your comparisions are right lol:thumbsup:

the F-22 is suprisingly slow for 2 afterburning engines, but it is very efficient when doing so. also it is very maneuverable at slow flight for dogfighting which is opposite the F-15. You are right though about the f35 doing well in more categories then specializing in one
 

Remus6

ViVa La Fuga!WLF
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Air superiority is no longer an issue nowadays. Really though, who out there other than Allied forces have such advance fighter planes? There's more need to support ground troops than there is a need to fight other nations in the air. No one other than the US and some European nations have the funding to own these planes. Our adversaries do not own planes that would necessitate for us to use the Raptor against. The F-22 is a nice plane, but it is, as you said yourself, a lot like having a nice Ferrari in your garage. Sure it can do 200 mph, but where in the America outside of a race track can you legally drive it that fast?

Just my 2 cents.
 

conom06d

Flying circles around VWs
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Air superiority is no longer an issue nowadays. Really though, who out there other than Allied forces have such advance fighter planes? There's more need to support ground troops than there is a need to fight other nations in the air. No one other than the US and some European nations have the funding to own these planes. Our adversaries do not own planes that would necessitate for us to use the Raptor against. The F-22 is a nice plane, but it is, as you said yourself, a lot like having a nice Ferrari in your garage. Sure it can do 200 mph, but where in the America outside of a race track can you legally drive it that fast?

Just my 2 cents.

Russia has some very good planes but until now they couldnt afford to fly them. Now they have found some oil money and i think they are getting back into the realm of things. Still, with the combination of our shittiest planes and out gound-air missiles on our ships, i cant think of a country that could last...
 

Remus6

ViVa La Fuga!WLF
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San Dizzle
Russia has some very good planes but until now they couldnt afford to fly them. Now they have found some oil money and i think they are getting back into the realm of things. Still, with the combination of our shittiest planes and out gound-air missiles on our ships, i cant think of a country that could last...

Yes they do have those nice planes, but do you honestly see them using those against us? The cold war has long been over and Russia's not gonna risk starting another pissing contest against us again. They might be tempted to sell that technology, but who amongst our true adversaries can afford it? Even if say North Korea or Iran or whomever could afford it, again, would they use it against us? Maybe, but I just don't see that happening. And if by some crazy far from reality they attempt to use it against us, we have superior pilots who have way better training and experience. Can you tell me when was the last time that the US has had to dog fight against other nations' air force? I think the biggest threat to our pilots are surface to airs, that's why the role of the F-35 is more vital.

The F-22 is a beauty without a doubt, but it is no longer a necessary tool. It's also like boxers, one trick pony. The F-35 is like a MMA fighter. Versatile and will be able to adapt to the role that is necessary for it to fill.
 

conom06d

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Yes they do have those nice planes, but do you honestly see them using those against us? The cold war has long been over and Russia's not gonna risk starting another pissing contest against us again. They might be tempted to sell that technology, but who amongst our true adversaries can afford it? Even if say North Korea or Iran or whomever could afford it, again, would they use it against us? Maybe, but I just don't see that happening. And if by some crazy far from reality they attempt to use it against us, we have superior pilots who have way better training and experience. Can you tell me when was the last time that the US has had to dog fight against other nations' air force? I think the biggest threat to our pilots are surface to airs, that's why the role of the F-35 is more vital.

i dont really want to start into politics here lol but all i can say is that people/countries will do strange things when feeling heat from an economic struggle. Plus, Russia and Iran have money now thanks to oil. Regardless, no, i do not see anything happening in the next couple of years. Maybe in 3-5 something may break out cuz war is what usually follows an economic slump. And, no there still would not be an air battle of any considerable resistance to our forces.

The F-22 is a beauty without a doubt, but it is no longer a necessary tool. It's also like boxers, one trick pony. The F-35 is like a MMA fighter. Versatile and will be able to adapt to the role that is necessary for it to fill.

Many people dont know this but the F-22 holds externally mounted payloads as well. They are just as good as the F-35 at taking out ground sites too, if not better since they have a larger useful payload if i am not mistaken. By no means is it outdated. The only thing the F-35 really has on it is cost savings in training and parts and the need to retire other aircraft in other branches. Remember the F35 is not meant to retire the F22 so if this does go through, all that will happen is that the F-35 will be accompanying even older aircraft on the battlefield (i.e. the F-16's)

^read bold
 

Remus6

ViVa La Fuga!WLF
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San Dizzle
^read bold

I know what you're talking about, but like I said before, there's no need to have two really good platforms when one can do the role of both at a more cost effective way. It is sad to see the 22 go, but it just doesn't make sense to keep it around especially since it's only meant to serve one branch. It is a sign of times that we NEED to cut back government spending somewhere, and the 22 is a perfect place to start.

War may or may not break out in the near future, but either way, the 22 only serves one purpose where as the 35 serves multiple purposes across the branches. To me, it makes sense that we don't keep it around.
 

conom06d

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Completely understandable but, first thing is first, the 35 needs to be produced before cutting anything ya know. Right now we have no good platform. Also, the 35 is far behind schedule last i checked because it was having some issues with the flight characteristics or something like that. I think it is sometime in the 20-teens that it is going to go into production if i'm not mistaken. I know the EU countries were pulling their orders and just going to take their Eurofighter. Anywhoo, the government does what it wants. Look at what they are doing with the Refueling tankers in the air force. They are buying Airbus tankers instead of Boeing. Thats a first and a mistake
 

fairladyz_gt-r

Go Kart Champion
Location
Indiana
Air superiority is no longer an issue nowadays. Really though, who out there other than Allied forces have such advance fighter planes? There's more need to support ground troops than there is a need to fight other nations in the air. No one other than the US and some European nations have the funding to own these planes. Our adversaries do not own planes that would necessitate for us to use the Raptor against. The F-22 is a nice plane, but it is, as you said yourself, a lot like having a nice Ferrari in your garage. Sure it can do 200 mph, but where in the America outside of a race track can you legally drive it that fast?

Just my 2 cents.

That might be true for the US, I don't see anyone invading you guys (Canada to the north, Mexico to the south, and if you guys get in a fight with Russia, well let just say that's the end of Mankind).

But I can think of 3 country right of the top of my head that's ridiculously rich (well, a bit less thanks to the economy) and is in need of air superiority. Why not sell it to them a some super expensive price?

Taiwan, Japan, and South Korea. Are all lock into an arms race with china. If US will allow these countries to place order for F22, I can guarantee, that the Boeing will have to be working in overtime to fulfill these orders. Minimum a 100 planes each.
 

fairladyz_gt-r

Go Kart Champion
Location
Indiana
Completely understandable but, first thing is first, the 35 needs to be produced before cutting anything ya know. Right now we have no good platform. Also, the 35 is far behind schedule last i checked because it was having some issues with the flight characteristics or something like that. I think it is sometime in the 20-teens that it is going to go into production if i'm not mistaken. I know the EU countries were pulling their orders and just going to take their Eurofighter. Anywhoo, the government does what it wants. Look at what they are doing with the Refueling tankers in the air force. They are buying Airbus tankers instead of Boeing. Thats a first and a mistake

Again, something that really pisses me off. Us Taiwanese actually try to sign up for the F35 project. Money in hand, but thanks to stupid politician blowing chinese's cock, we are left out in the cold with shitty F16 and Mirages..
 
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walangij

D1 2010!
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Watervliet, MI
This may be a tangent, but how large is the F-22 fleet now? I heard it's somewhere around 180 and they're going to add only like 4 more to it? What's this in comparison to the other relative sizes of fighter jets in our Air Force? How many squadrons is that? I have no idea how jets are organized btw.

Those 180+ pilots must have the best job in the world.
 

cmdrfire

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You gotta be kidding me :eyebulge:
0:40 and 1:45 are just insane

In Soviet Russia, Physics Defies You!

This may be a tangent, but how large is the F-22 fleet now? I heard it's somewhere around 180 and they're going to add only like 4 more to it? What's this in comparison to the other relative sizes of fighter jets in our Air Force? How many squadrons is that? I have no idea how jets are organized btw.

Those 180+ pilots must have the best job in the world.

There's meant to be 187 F-22s in service, compared to the initial order for some 700 aircraft. The initial order is somewhat similar to the number of F-15s flown by the US, around 650 units.
Problem with the F-22 is the huge price per unit; US$140m per aircraft. Insofar as other air powers go, the only country with an actual air force the US has an outside chance of being at war with in the medium future is possibly Iran, and they're equipped with 70s-era US F-14 Tomcats, which are outmoded by F-16s and F/A-18s.
If the F-22 saw active combat service it'd take over doing what the F-15s are doing now; close support for boots on the ground, and frankly you don't need a US$140m aircraft to do that.
IIRC the F-22 was originally envisaged (back in the 80s) as an air-to-air unit exclusively, and the external weapons hardpoints were added later in the design phase when people realised that the war with the USSR wasn't going to happen.
Absolutely beautiful aircraft though, I saw one during the Farnborough air show last year.
 

festivus

Nooblinger
Location
Canada
A little off-topic, I know, but my favorite American plane of all time has got to be the P-47. What a fucking beast.

 

conom06d

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as for a warbird:



BUt for my all time favorite:
F-14
 
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