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Good price on a base model GTI

HotLanta MKfizzle

Formula 5000 Driver
Location
Atlanta GA
That's a really good deal... best I've seen so far. I think buying the base model gives you alot more negotiating power, becuase from what i've seen people are going for for package 1 or 2. You also state that "invoice" is a made up number. Is that true for options and add-ons like from the accessories catalouge?
In the past year i've bought over a grand worth of electronics (iPod, Digital Camera, PDA, etc...) by far my Sirius Satellite radio $150.00 bucks and $12.95 per month is the choice product.

Scotaku said:
D'oh. I forgot the actual price! $21,604 base car, DSG, "package 0" because I want a commuter car... yeah that's it. Shedding the weight of the sunroof helps get the center of gravity a little lower in the car. ;) And pay radio? Puhleeze...

Maryland taxes are 5% (~$1023) and tags here are $128 for two years. $20453 for the car including whatever delivery and dealer processing fees there are. My bottom line was $21000 on the road. Their counter offer is about 40% of the taxes with me coming up from my line by $604. That's a fair deal to me considering I know they're only doing it because some other customer probably paid closer to MSRP than invoice... not really knowing those numbers are fiction. C'est la vie.
 

Srt4toGTI

Ready to race!
Location
Dayton, Ohio
Thanks a lot for the info. I'm deffinately willing to wait. I still need to sell my car first. That makes me feel a lot better when i get down to negotiating. Thanks again for the info.

Scotaku said:
Invoice price is a myth. The outed and lurking dealers here and elsewhere will fight tooth and nail to disagree, but no dealer pays jack squat for the cars they move until the end of a sales cycle. At that time, if a dealer has moved (sold) X number of cars then they get "billed" for the cars minus their operating costs. This is a positive figure and is called profit.

Dealers are franchised agents selling cars for the manufacturer. They don't actually buy the cars from VW more than they sell them for a gamut of figures their buyers somehow reach equilibrium with and sign their deals. The "invoice" price is a ficticious number artificially lower than the manufacter's suggested retail price (MSRP) that are both engineered to give buyers a sensation of power in their knowledge. Anyone paying less than MSRP but some menial amount over or under invoice is simply wandering through carefully planted figures nowhere near the actual dealer cost... a figure you'll never know because the dealers don't know it until they tally up all the sales, including yours, during a sales period. Rest assured it is nowhere near "invoice" because that figure itself represents a very generous though average amount of profit for the dealers.

Paying "invoice" is paying the desired average profit the dealers have agreed they'd like after moving some target number of a fleet of vehicles. Don't want to pay that? You have to find a dealer willing to average his profits, literally spread the profits from one or more other sales onto yours to give you a killer deal waaaaay under "invoice."

How do you get that you ask? Well, it takes a little patience and a lot of contact. Each dealer has a table of numbers of cars they want to sell by the end of the sales period. On the table are progressively lower "prices" for the cars they'll bay back to VW which goes down as their numbers of sales go up. They're not actually paying, but keeping more of the deal totals for themselves as profit. Sell more cars, send less money to VW.

No one of them will openly reveal they're on a timetable to sell as many cars as they can, but at the end of it the deals are more likely to appear. This is where patience pays off. You set your price and then stick to it until one of your local dealers feels the pinch to move just that one more car. They all see you waiting patiently with your far lower than average price offer and then start examining the sales they've already made. One of those dealers may grow willing to slice into the profits already garnered from a recent sale and agree to your deal just for the sake of moving one more car off his lot... and thus not having to split as much of the sales with VW.

None of those dealers may play though which is again where patience is a requirement. Meanwhile, the contact has already been made. If there's anything car dealers do, it's stay in touch. You have to be prepared for a lot of phone calls and emails, so you may wish to limit your contact info to a celphone or throwaway email to contain the spam. Dealer salespeople also seem to be pretty adept at appearing inept online conveniently forgetting what you're looking for and any prices you've discussed. You keep your wits about you and politely refresh the conversation with past information. Remain polite when you insist upon your price too. Eventually, the end of the sales period will arrive and the dealers will be flocking to you to see if you've found your car. Just stick to your price and one of them will probably badly want just one more car for their numbers.

It has worked for me. Two weeks of negotiation and polite eye rolling as dealer after dealer ping me to see if my price point isn't flexible... and then the offer comes. It sounds so awful and I'm stealing bread from their children's tables but the absolute best they can do is within a few hundred of my offer... but a Grand Canyon less than "invoice"... and includes my state taxes and registration fees. Instead of paying all the taxes, they're effectively paying half and, frankly, that impresses me and I'm inking on the other half.

It'll be a black DSG'd GTI and I'll have a scant seven weeks for break-in before I take the new ride to VIR for two days on the full course with Audi Club. Boo yah!
 

Srt4toGTI

Ready to race!
Location
Dayton, Ohio
I'll just ask for your opinion here on this, so i have a little more confidence going to the VW dealership. Should i be able to test drive the GTI so soon? I'm afraid they'll say some crap about me not having sold my car yet, so come back when you do. Or something of that nature.
 

HotLanta MKfizzle

Formula 5000 Driver
Location
Atlanta GA
Srt4toGTI said:
I'll just ask for your opinion here on this, so i have a little more confidence going to the VW dealership. Should i be able to test drive the GTI so soon? I'm afraid they'll say some crap about me not having sold my car yet, so come back when you do. Or something of that nature.


if they want your business they'll let you drive it...
 

Bouston

FIA World Rally Car Champion
Location
Heidelberg, Germany
Car(s)
2006 Subaru STI
Srt4toGTI said:
I'll just ask for your opinion here on this, so i have a little more confidence going to the VW dealership. Should i be able to test drive the GTI so soon? I'm afraid they'll say some crap about me not having sold my car yet, so come back when you do. Or something of that nature.

The dealership that you have been going to sounds like crap. Besides them, what's the next closest dealership?
 

Srt4toGTI

Ready to race!
Location
Dayton, Ohio
Bouston said:
The dealership that you have been going to sounds like crap. Besides them, what's the next closest dealership?

There's another one downtown. About 15 miles away. Their website shows their inventory and they don't have much in the way of new GTIs. There's also one about 30 miles south, toward cincinnati. I could give them a shot.

The one i went to also sells Porshe's and Jaguars. So maybe their sales people are more used to upper class people. But hell, a sale's a sale right? :rolleyes: :thumbdown:
 

Srt4toGTI

Ready to race!
Location
Dayton, Ohio
Another good post. Thanks a lot. I feel like i'm listening to Tony Robbins here! I mean that in a good/positive way. I'm not feeling so bad about going and telling these hoity toity (spelling?) people what they can do to earn a little business. :thumbsup:

Scotaku said:
You shouldn't have to show up empty handed to get some charity. If they won't let you test drive how on Earth are you supposed to assess whether you want to spend money on the car?

I don't know how it came to pass but when I went in for a test drive, I wound up taking the car home for the night to share it with my wife whom had not been able to come along at first. It sure seemed like they wanted my business.

The salesguy and his manager were totally nice right up until their general manager got involved. What a tool! I leveled with him same as every other dealer in town and he launched off on gimmicks other dealers pull and how I should buy where service would be best, blah, blah, blah, and ohbytheway there's no way we can meet that price. The mere mention of service turned my stomach. Not a single one of these shops has a service department I'd dare use for anything short of tsb or recall work... and I'll be on them like ugly on an ape on those days (I still have a scratch in my Passat's front right fender over the fuel filler recall.) Overpriced. Barely competent. They are the reason Ross-Tech, Bentley, and Craftsman get my service business... right outside in my garage.

The GM is of course the person whose going to approve any deal or not; to see the big picture when it comes to total sales for a period coming to close. He/She directs their salespeople to pound the pavement for not yet closed deals. I fully expect more emails and calls even after taking delivery and ya know what? I have no qualm in sharing the facts of my buy. Who knows? Maybe the example of treating a smart buyer with some respect will teach them a lesson. Doubtful though. There just aren't enough dealers with a Walmart mentality. If you make a dime selling a thousand of them easy, it's the same as making a buck each being a jerk selling a hundred. But with manufacturer incentives on moving more cars, the store that sells a thousand is going to earn a larger profit.


And by the way, just because a dealer hasn't got the car you're looking for doesn't mean they can't get it. "Dealer locate" is a term for trading cars from lot to lot. Remember, none of them have been paid for until one of those dealers makes a sale and adds it to their tally. Thus, the dealer who truly wants to do business will get you the car, at your price, with sugar on top if you insist. What they want in return is credit in the eyes of VW for moving that car into a customer's hands.
 

ewoo

Rally Car Newbie
Scotaku said:
D'oh. I forgot the actual price! $21,604 base car, DSG, "package 0" because I want a commuter car... yeah that's it...
... That's a fair deal to me considering I know they're only doing it because some other customer probably paid closer to MSRP than invoice... not really knowing those numbers are fiction. C'est la vie.
....

Right-on man! You're my hero! :bow:

I'm getting ready for some waiting and tough negotiations myself...
I just need to figure-out which options I want.
Time is on my side. Wish me luck!!
 

Hokietuner

Rally Car Newbie
I got OTD @ 23000 for package 1, paid invoice for package 1. I wanted the sunroof if i'm gonna have this car for the next 5-7 years. Whatever makes you happy man, but trust me the sunroof is well worth it. I actually came from a 2000 Jeep wrangler, and loved having a convertable, so I needed the sunroof.
 

Wantagti

insufficient funds
Location
Apex, NC
Car(s)
Chevy Suburban Z71
Call invoice pricing whatever you want, it's accurate. I sold cars for 3 years and what you find on Edmunds with the exception of some manufacturers charging zone advertising fees, it's accurate. The dealership gets holdback, a percentage of invoice, at some point to offset the interest they pay for the vehicle while it occupies the parking lot. Some dealerships, like the smaller ones for example, own all the cars so they pay no interest. The things I find as BS are documentary fees. You need to ask that when you decide what you're willing to pay. If they have a $500 doc fee, I'd offer them invoice. I think $500 over invoice is a very good deal, yet fair. Dealerships are constantly advertising "invoice pricing" sales anyway.
As far as that salesman "carding" you, I'd thow that in the garbage and look for a new one. One bad person can ruin a lot of business although going back and then seeing him there can me you a little ill.
I'm an employee at a dealership and I pay invoice minus rebates minus any "employee" rebates if there are any, just so you know. Sometimes they'll go into holdback if they're about to hit some sort of unit based monthly bonus.

I'm also a service advisor and have been for the last 8 years. There are just as many competent technicians at dealerships as there are at independent shops. IMO, more of them work at dealerships because we pay top dollar as well as pay them to go to factory training classes and certification. Any shop you go to can and probably will screw up your car in some way. What matters is how they rectify the problem. I recommend you walk around your vehicle with whoever services your vehicle before you drop it off so both of you are aware of the condition of your vehicle.
 

ewoo

Rally Car Newbie
Wantagti said:
Call invoice pricing whatever you want, it's accurate. I sold cars for 3 years and what you find on Edmunds with the exception of some manufacturers charging zone advertising fees, it's accurate. The dealership gets holdback, a percentage of invoice, at some point to offset the interest they pay for the vehicle while it occupies the parking lot...


Of course "invoice pricing" is accurate. That's what is says on those sheets of paper right?

Unless you're a controller or a high-level finance guy for that dealership, you'll never know what the bottom line on each car sold is. Even if your employer sells the car to you at "invoice", the only favor you're getting is avoiding the hassle of negotiating.

I used to consult for a large car manufacturer in Torrance. Those company employees got 30% under so-called "invoice" price. Even then, the manufacturer wasn't losing money on those cars.

The whole point that Scotaku is making is that dealers have the room for negotiating prices and that more often than not, they still make a profit. In that sense, the term "invoice" pricing is misleading because that's not the actual cost of the car sold to the dealer. It might as well be called "dealer's minimum asking price"---not "invoice price".
 

Wantagti

insufficient funds
Location
Apex, NC
Car(s)
Chevy Suburban Z71
I hear you there. No one knows how much they make on bonus money based on objectives set by the manuf. either. Sometimes the dealer may "bank" on hitting a goal and sell the last few cars of the month with that in mind, then not hit it and they lose out. It's a big gambling game of sorts, which of course isn't our problem. I just feel invoice is more than fair as NO other business I'm aware of negotiates from their cost on the product. The car business is at a disadvantage compared to all other businesses IMO, but they are the ones that divulged the info.
 

ewoo

Rally Car Newbie
Wantagti said:
I hear you there. No one knows how much they make on bonus money based on objectives set by the manuf. either. Sometimes the dealer may "bank" on hitting a goal and sell the last few cars of the month with that in mind, then not hit it and they lose out. It's a big gambling game of sorts, which of course isn't our problem. I just feel invoice is more than fair as NO other business I'm aware of negotiates from their cost on the product. The car business is at a disadvantage compared to all other businesses IMO, but they are the ones that divulged the info.

I think you may have missed my point. The car business does NOT divulge information. Because the so-called "invoice" price "divluged" is really not the actual cost of the car to the dealer. It's misinformation to the buyer.

There's no gambling on the dealer's part. They're are the "house". The house always wins. They may not win on one particular customer but eventually, they will make their profit.
 

Kurupt

low
Location
Savannah
Car(s)
Jeep
Srt4toGTI said:
Well what really turned me on to the srt4 was the sheet power for the price. I started to mod it and i realized the just straight speed wasn't all i wanted. I wanted a nice, adult car. That was still quick and moddable. I'm not sure if that was a word or not ;-).

I liked how the GTI has a great interior and since it's a hatch it's very practical.

I also didn't like that everyone in a fox body mustang or wrx wanted to harass the hell outta me!

yea too bad i have been harassed by alot of those kinda cars ever since i got mine lol but i love the attention and the look on their faces when i am keeping up with them... i cant wait till i get a chip an intake and turboback... then their face will be priceless!!:drinking:
 
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