Well...it was either the GTI or the Si, and...

Slowride, well its about time that Honda does something. By the way u know the ideas where come from? It was all from the BMW M3 to deliver such high power and torque from a small engine without a turbo or supercharge. And tell me what european car has incorporated the VTEC into their cars. Who would need a car that the power comes at the Redline come on.
Honda is a car with motor and chasis with a lot of add ons from the Fast and the Furious. And believe me I had a Honda myself.

Slowride, no documentation but it all comes from conventional opionions and thoughts not only from me but from the rest of the world. Also, some of the features that exist on Japanese cars and others came from European cars, that airbag that you have on your honda, who do you think owns that patent? How about ABS? You think Japanese makers will come out and say:"We just accomplished cloning, Mercedes, BWM,..." come on obviously not.

vdubGTi said:

For those of you thant don't know about german and european engineering you might want to consider reading this. European cars are leaders and not followers. Look at the Benz all of the technologies such as ASR, ABS, airbags, and so on come from it. BMW power and agressivness and best sport compact, Audi the first all wheel drive car, and VW gti the first and best small compact car and the best Hatchback, Volvo does not fear death, Porcshe everything that other non european cars dont have and I dont even want to talk about the Lambo and Ferrari and so on. So how in the hell Japanese cars come out to be better. Lexus copies the Benz, Infiniti the BMW, Acura/Honda everyone else, so come on. Prove me wrong.

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Damn! VERY, VERY true.... i couldnt have put it better:clap:

BTW who said that the SI has better performance than the GTI(maybe at 8500 rpm)?

vdubGTi said:

Slowride, well its about time that Honda does something. By the way u know the ideas where come from? It was all from the BMW M3 to deliver such high power and torque from a small engine without a turbo or supercharge. And tell me what european car has incorporated the VTEC into their cars. Who would need a car that the power comes at the Redline come on.
Honda is a car with motor and chasis with a lot of add ons from the Fast and the Furious. And believe me I had a Honda myself.

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Thats a pretty bold statement imo. Nevertheless, whether the M3 was the inspiration for Honda, it would be difficult to prove. Honda developed the VTEC system in 1989 and was first introduced in the 1990 NSX. The system was meant for racing inspired engines that operate at high rpm. Hence a street car would not benefit as much when engine rpms are low. Improvements over time have made it better.
Most Japanese car manufacturers are displacement limited by the Government so they are forced to compensate with higher strung engines. Japanese performance cars are all about track performance so high torque is not needed for light weight cars.

Car manufacturers have their own variable valve timing systems, i.e. VANOS for BMW, VVTI for Toyota etc. so they don't have to use VTEC. However they all have the same objective, to optimize air/fuel mixture flow of the engine.

and HotLanta MKfizzle, I realy understand you...

but why should slowridestop posting here? he was interested in the GTI before buying the SI which is a very good car BTW, its not like he bought a hyndai...

LordNikon said:

Thats a pretty bold statement imo. Nevertheless, whether the M3 was the inspiration for Honda, it would be difficult to prove. Honda developed the VTEC system in 1989 and was first introduced in the 1990 NSX. The system was meant for racing inspired engines that operate at high rpm. Hence a street car would not benefit as much when engine rpms are low. Improvements over time have made it better.
Most Japanese car manufacturers are displacement limited by the Government so they are forced to compensate with higher strung engines. Japanese performance cars are all about track performance so high torque is not needed for light weight cars.

Car manufacturers have their own variable valve timing systems, i.e. VANOS for BMW, VVTI for Toyota etc. so they don't have to use VTEC. However they all have the same objective, to optimize air/fuel mixture flow of the engine.

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Yes, u are right. The question is where does it come from. If Thomas Eddison didn't invent the light bulb, how would Philips would produce bulbs today?

LordNikon and tell me who were they inspired by? If it's not European cars then its got to be some space ship.

Another important thing about European cars is that they specialze and they have a niche, they don't try to be all over. For example, The Benz the luxury and comfort, the Porcshe for roads that can be turned into a race track, the Ferrari for Novelty and defiance.

Also, racing wise, Le Mans, F1, Rally and so on tell me where does Honda stand. Look at BMW, Audi, and Porsche.

I feel bad for those that either are misled by the facts or they simply ignore and "Ignorance is Bliss" that European cars set standards for those in the far future to study and learn from.

The only thing I would admit at what Japanese cars are the best is fuel consumption, but for everything else Japanese cars do not stand a chance.

HotLanta MKfizzle said:

Buying a Honda, regardless of the model is probably the safest automotive purchase in terms of reliablity, cost to maintain and such. If you don't know that i'm sorry to say your smack dab in the middle of "ignorance territory." VW is on the other side of the spectrum, but the risk - reward was worth it to me personally. If I had to drive 50 miles to work everyday, pick up the kids etc... I probablly would have bought a different car. The fact that your still posting on this site, makes me think your not even sure you bought the right car.

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HotLanta, you are better than Dr. Phil, I think you'd be a good psychologist.lol. He is not sure at all if he bought the right car. I see his regrets. Trying to justify the purchase with Win Win situation in this forum.

vdubGTi said:

HotLanta, you are better than Dr. Phil, I think you'd be a good psychologist.lol. He is not sure at all if he bought the right car. I see his regrets. Trying to justify the purchase with Win Win situation in this forum.

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LOL, Dr. ILL more like it. Slowride is trying to have his cake and eat it too. You can't have both the feel of European craftsmanship, and reliability of Japanese production.

HotLanta MKfizzle said:

LOL, Dr. ILL more like it. Slowride is trying to have his cake and eat it too. You can't have both the feel of European craftsmanship, and reliability of Japanese production.

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I am not going to engage in this. It is pretty clear that there are a few people here trying to start a flame war, and in fact, they don't even own an Si or a GTI :iono:

I won't flame back, so keep entertaining each other.

Slowride said:

I am not going to engage in this. It is pretty clear that there are a few people here trying to start a flame war, and in fact, they don't even own an Si or a GTI :iono:

I won't flame back, so keep entertaining each other.

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I have no idea what a "flame war" is but in any case, I think your making a good choice by ending your defense of a Honda, in a GTI forum. I wouldn't expect to get love from guy's in a Honda forum, and honestly I wouldn't care. Best of Luck to U Slowride, I'm sure you have many miles of problem-free driving ahead.:thumbup:

Let me explain that another way, so you can understand it.

I will still be posting on this forum, but I will be ignoring the immature people who pick fights.

Slowride said:

Let me explain that another way, so you can understand it.

I will still be posting on this forum, but I will be ignoring the immature people who pick fights.

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If I was picking a fight with a Honda owner I would have said that "Honda Civic's SI's are the definition of a wanna-be performance vehicle, that is fucking ugly, and doesn't deserve to smell the exhaust of a dub..." whoops, Freudian Slip....

-HTL

PS: keep me up to date with all the cool mods you do to your HONDA, I really want to hear how original an SI owner could be.

Wow, that turned nasty, real quick.

Not a great fan of Japanese cars here, but I sure as hell respect them... the NSX was in a world of it's own, and the old-style Type R still generates vast crowds here. Damn fun car to drive, but I wouldn't give up my GTI.

Slowride, your car sounds absolutely beautiful when that VTEC starts working! I wasn't sure about the two-deck interior, but it's something I'll check out myself when I got some free time to take the new Civic for a test drive. I don't know if you know, but the gear lever for the old-style Type R was in a really awkward spot; where is it positioned on yours?

A note on respect: more often than not, when I pass a Type R, say, we flash our lights at each other; after all, we both belong to that highly specialised and highly dedicated Cult of the Hot Hatch. Different sects, same idea :bow: