Arin@APR
GOLFMK7 Official Sponsor
- Location
- Auburn, Al
- Car(s)
- B8 S4, MK7 GSW TDI
<------------- For those wondering why I didn't have many of these answers on my own, I created this thread long before working for APR. Anyways, read through and enjoy!
After speaking with several people, and seeing the results myself, I’m interested in Water Methanol injection. It’s something I will only consider after I research if I determine it’s worthwhile and safe. While some of my questions may be tuner specific, many and most may not, so I encourage anyone to post any of their findings, experiences or tips. I know next to nothing in this department, so I’m ready to ask hundreds of questions, even if they seem stupid. I rather ask simple questions even if I think I know the answer just to make sure I’m right or wrong.
Vehicle Background:
My vehicle is a US BPY 2007 2.0TFSI GTI w/ DSG. I’m running the APR ED30 K04 kit. I have the S3/ED30 K04 turbocharger, S3/ED30 K04 injectors, Carbonio intake scoop and filter w/ stock air box, and APR’s Intercooler, High Pressure Fuel Pump and Full three inch stealth exhaust with 100 cell catalytic converter. I have 91 octane software, 93 octane software, and 100 octane software which were all tuned using the exact setup described above and in fact were tuned on my car. The final last production tweaks were preformed on an A3 with the exact same components. I currently live in a state which has 93 octane and I plan to run this octane daily.
Questions/Concerns/Thoughts/Ramblings:
1. 100 octane tunes are tuned for every rpm at every load level specifically for 100 octane. If I’m running 93 octane with 50/50 water/meth I’m told this will have many of the same characteristics as running 100 octane fuel, making it apparently ‘safe’ to run the same timing used on a 100 octane tune. If I understand water meth correctly, it’s sprayed and flows at different rates based on maf or boost sensor signals. What happens when I’m cursing on the highway in a low load level situation? If the water/meth is not spraying, I will be running 100 octane tuning/timing with 93 octane fuel. Knock will be rather high if I’m not mistaken. Is this bad? Can this harm the engine? Will the ECU quickly adapt enough to make it safe? Are there any long term disadvantages or detriments to the engine in this situation?
2. Fail safes? What happens if the solution is low, runs out, cuts out, clogs, or a pump dies while driving WOT with a 100 octane tune, 93 octane in the tank? Could this sudden change instantly cause serious issues? What happens if the meth runs or fails when I’m in a situation where I’m completely unable to pull over and switch the program for minutes/miles (assume the worse/longest amount of time/distance)?
3. My quick research has found my first two questions can possibly be addressed by something snow performance calles ‘Safeinjection’, which provides a safe tune for some of the above situations, however it is ‘Temporarily unavailable.” After reading the description, it seems impossible for ME9, and may be why its ‘temporarily unavailable’. Is this true?
4. What mixture has proved to be the best and safest and or most cost effective? Has anyone found a bulk supplier or meth or do most buy pre mixed solutions? Does anyone simply run a specific type of windshield washer fluid? Are the dyes or other detergents in the fluid dangerous to the engine? Can mixed solutions sit for a long period of time if bought in bulk? Does water and methanol separate over long periods of time and require shaking, or agitation? Can/is it easy to contaminate the solution in a dangerous way if mixing it on my own?
5. MAP or MAF controlled or both? What is the proper way to control spraying of the solution? When should it turn on, and how much? How should I determine nozzle sizes, number of nozzle, position and locations of nozzle and pump size?
6. What are my options in terms of manufacturers of complete kits? I’m currently only aware of snow performance. Does anyone have any technical data to support why they would use one kit over another?
7. Consumption rates. The basic HOW LONG will a gallon of water/meth last question. Assuming this can loosely be based on the rate of gasoline consumption on a typical day, how long can I expect the mixture to last? Will be become a troublesome burden rather quickly? Will I constantly find myself ordering ‘boost juice’ online? Do people typically turn off w/m and run a 93 octane tune during commutes and only turn it on in the evening for spirited drives, or jump over to w/m and a 100 octane file for weekend fun? Can and will there be substantial benefits or problems running water/meth on a 93 octane tune? Would there be a problem if I ran a 93 octane tune and flipped a switch to activate my water meth while driving if I suddenly rob a bank and need extra powerz?
8. Does w/m increase or decrease engine wear in any way that one would consider ‘substantial’?
9. Is fuel consumption greatly impacted positively or negatively by running a 100 octane tune w/ 93 and water meth, especially in low load no meth situations w/ the increase knock activity?
10. Real world costs of water/meth. Has anyone ditched the setup all together after spending hundreds upon hundreds for the mixture? Do you find the costs adding up quickly making the extra power unjustifiable?
11. Monitoring. What should I log and how should I log from time to time to verify everything is healthy? What should I look for?
At any rate, It’s clear to see I have many concerns, which may or may not be an issue. Hopefully there are a few out there who can lend a hand and hopefully the information will be useful for anyone else considering water/meth!
Thanks! :lips:
After speaking with several people, and seeing the results myself, I’m interested in Water Methanol injection. It’s something I will only consider after I research if I determine it’s worthwhile and safe. While some of my questions may be tuner specific, many and most may not, so I encourage anyone to post any of their findings, experiences or tips. I know next to nothing in this department, so I’m ready to ask hundreds of questions, even if they seem stupid. I rather ask simple questions even if I think I know the answer just to make sure I’m right or wrong.
Vehicle Background:
My vehicle is a US BPY 2007 2.0TFSI GTI w/ DSG. I’m running the APR ED30 K04 kit. I have the S3/ED30 K04 turbocharger, S3/ED30 K04 injectors, Carbonio intake scoop and filter w/ stock air box, and APR’s Intercooler, High Pressure Fuel Pump and Full three inch stealth exhaust with 100 cell catalytic converter. I have 91 octane software, 93 octane software, and 100 octane software which were all tuned using the exact setup described above and in fact were tuned on my car. The final last production tweaks were preformed on an A3 with the exact same components. I currently live in a state which has 93 octane and I plan to run this octane daily.
Questions/Concerns/Thoughts/Ramblings:
1. 100 octane tunes are tuned for every rpm at every load level specifically for 100 octane. If I’m running 93 octane with 50/50 water/meth I’m told this will have many of the same characteristics as running 100 octane fuel, making it apparently ‘safe’ to run the same timing used on a 100 octane tune. If I understand water meth correctly, it’s sprayed and flows at different rates based on maf or boost sensor signals. What happens when I’m cursing on the highway in a low load level situation? If the water/meth is not spraying, I will be running 100 octane tuning/timing with 93 octane fuel. Knock will be rather high if I’m not mistaken. Is this bad? Can this harm the engine? Will the ECU quickly adapt enough to make it safe? Are there any long term disadvantages or detriments to the engine in this situation?
2. Fail safes? What happens if the solution is low, runs out, cuts out, clogs, or a pump dies while driving WOT with a 100 octane tune, 93 octane in the tank? Could this sudden change instantly cause serious issues? What happens if the meth runs or fails when I’m in a situation where I’m completely unable to pull over and switch the program for minutes/miles (assume the worse/longest amount of time/distance)?
3. My quick research has found my first two questions can possibly be addressed by something snow performance calles ‘Safeinjection’, which provides a safe tune for some of the above situations, however it is ‘Temporarily unavailable.” After reading the description, it seems impossible for ME9, and may be why its ‘temporarily unavailable’. Is this true?
4. What mixture has proved to be the best and safest and or most cost effective? Has anyone found a bulk supplier or meth or do most buy pre mixed solutions? Does anyone simply run a specific type of windshield washer fluid? Are the dyes or other detergents in the fluid dangerous to the engine? Can mixed solutions sit for a long period of time if bought in bulk? Does water and methanol separate over long periods of time and require shaking, or agitation? Can/is it easy to contaminate the solution in a dangerous way if mixing it on my own?
5. MAP or MAF controlled or both? What is the proper way to control spraying of the solution? When should it turn on, and how much? How should I determine nozzle sizes, number of nozzle, position and locations of nozzle and pump size?
6. What are my options in terms of manufacturers of complete kits? I’m currently only aware of snow performance. Does anyone have any technical data to support why they would use one kit over another?
7. Consumption rates. The basic HOW LONG will a gallon of water/meth last question. Assuming this can loosely be based on the rate of gasoline consumption on a typical day, how long can I expect the mixture to last? Will be become a troublesome burden rather quickly? Will I constantly find myself ordering ‘boost juice’ online? Do people typically turn off w/m and run a 93 octane tune during commutes and only turn it on in the evening for spirited drives, or jump over to w/m and a 100 octane file for weekend fun? Can and will there be substantial benefits or problems running water/meth on a 93 octane tune? Would there be a problem if I ran a 93 octane tune and flipped a switch to activate my water meth while driving if I suddenly rob a bank and need extra powerz?
8. Does w/m increase or decrease engine wear in any way that one would consider ‘substantial’?
9. Is fuel consumption greatly impacted positively or negatively by running a 100 octane tune w/ 93 and water meth, especially in low load no meth situations w/ the increase knock activity?
10. Real world costs of water/meth. Has anyone ditched the setup all together after spending hundreds upon hundreds for the mixture? Do you find the costs adding up quickly making the extra power unjustifiable?
11. Monitoring. What should I log and how should I log from time to time to verify everything is healthy? What should I look for?
At any rate, It’s clear to see I have many concerns, which may or may not be an issue. Hopefully there are a few out there who can lend a hand and hopefully the information will be useful for anyone else considering water/meth!
Thanks! :lips:
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