Premium gas at sub-regular price

[icetraxx]

93 octane Premium gas costs about $4 extra per complete fill up than regular unleaded 87 (r+m)/2. Imagine that on an empty tank, filling a GTI with 8 gallons of 87 and then moving over to the E85 (the real minimum 105 octane stuff - not the watered down 70-75% ethanol 100 octane stuff) pump, and filling the rest of the tank up with that (5 gallons). I estimate that would net about 93-94 octane to the car. Assuming the regular gas contains 10% ethanol (E10) and the E85 contains 85%, the gas should contain about 38% ethanol max. Regular unleaded that contains no ethanol should yield about 33% ethanol max. Overall, that should cost about $38 (due to E85 being cheaper than regular) to fill the car up (at michigan's gas prices) compared to $39 for regular 87 and $43 for premium 93.

Does this logic make sense to you guys? Should I try this? :laugh:

And before anyone says anything about gas mileage going down with ethanol, true or not, it doesn't matter with how I drive anyway. :bellyroll:

[Uberryan]

you think too much.

[vDubr]

you think too much.

:word:

Don't be a cheap ass. Fill it up the way VW recommends on the fuel door. If that's too much to ask, you might want to consider another car.

[mose6161]

that does not work. the two gasses are not of the same viscosity. they will not blend to make your ghetto-gas, it will probably instead make your car run like shit.

now i don't know much about this so i'll stop here.

i would kill to have 110 octane gas available. it would be my sunday treat.

[icetraxx]

It's just an over-thought idea I had... I hate big oil and $4 a tank adds up. :cry:

The fuels should mix fine as flexfuel cars can run on any combination of regular gas and E85 (though GTIs are not flexfuel).

[dpham00]

be glad you can readily buy 93 oct. the most we can find easily is 91 here in CA

[MKvUltra]

my local chevron sells 100 oct but its like $1.20 more than 91 :frown:

[icetraxx]

be glad you can readily buy 93 oct. the most we can find easily is 91 here in CA

We also have 94 octane gas at most Sunoco stations here. The Sunoco in farmington hills, MI has 105 (or 110?) octane race fuel at the pump. My dad used to fill up gas cans with it and put it in his Camaro at the drag strip, the gas is dark blue. :wink:

[FaLLeNAn9eL]

be glad you can readily buy 93 oct. the most we can find easily is 91 here in CA

Agreed. I'm itching to try some 93.

[Uthor]

i would kill to have 110 octane gas available. it would be my sunday treat.

Why? Unless you are specifically chipped to run 110 octane and have a monster turbo or something to increase compression, you're not going to see a power gain. In fact, 110 octane contains slightly less energy than 93 octane, so you will be getting less power (though probably not noticably).

The only thing 110 will do is allow you to run more aggresive timings and higher compression without the fear of knock.

[itsYANO]

so.. where do you buy your weed? must be good shit


overthink much? :biggrin:

[Blocko]

Mixing different octane gas is like mixing milk with scotch. It doesn't work and just leaves a bad taste in your mouth.

[angrybaker]

"ghetto gas"

mose, you come up with the best expressions.

[bcze1]

The fuels should mix fine as flexfuel cars can run on any combination of regular gas and E85 (though GTIs are not flexfuel).

You just answered your own question. Ethanol is more corrosive, it WILL damage your fuel system. Maybe not on the first tank, but maybe on the 4th or 5th. Also, fuel lubricates the HPFP in the 2.0T. Ethanol does lubrigate nearly as well as gas, so your HPFP would fail, probably quickly. Last it would also ruin your O2 sensor over tiem. Seriously, you'd have to be an idiot to put E85 in ANY non-flex fuel car. If you're serious about this, do some research. You might be able to find a way to convert your GTI to flex fuel, though the cost would far outweigh the benefits.

Mixing different octane gas is like mixing milk with scotch.

Are you serious? Many (older) gas stations only have 2 tanks, and mix regular and premium in order to create mid-grade.

[grasshopper]

I hate big oil
Big Corn is no better. If anything, you should ween yourself off both.

[MC.R]

You just answered your own question. Ethanol is more corrosive, it WILL damage your fuel system. Maybe not on the first tank, but maybe on the 4th or 5th. Also, fuel lubricates the HPFP in the 2.0T. Ethanol does lubrigate nearly as well as gas, so your HPFP would fail, probably quickly. Last it would also ruin your O2 sensor over tiem. Seriously, you'd have to be an idiot to put E85 in ANY non-flex fuel car. If you're serious about this, do some research. You might be able to find a way to convert your GTI to flex fuel, though the cost would far outweigh the benefits.



Are you serious? Many (older) gas stations only have 2 tanks, and mix regular and premium in order to create mid-grade.

that being said... should i be concerned at all that every single gas station that ive been to in my state has at least 10% ethanol blend? or is that just kind of insignificant, and if it is whats the point of adding 10% ethanol anyways?

[MC.R]

Are you serious? Many (older) gas stations only have 2 tanks, and mix regular and premium in order to create mid-grade.

i've actually heard this before somewhere's else, wouldn't doubt it either with really old gas stations, people did a lot of whack things to cut corners back in the day.. and still kind of do now unfortunately

[dmw16]

you need special fuel lines to run E85 as traditional rubber fuel lines will be eaten by E85.

[yg17]

be glad you can readily buy 93 oct. the most we can find easily is 91 here in CA

For those of us who are 100% stock, does it matter if we run 91 or 93? Some gas stations here have 93, some have 91. Should I be making a point to go to the ones with 93 or will 91 do? Thanks

[MC.R]

you need special fuel lines to run E85 as traditional rubber fuel lines will be eaten by E85.

really? and im assuming we have traditional rubber fuel lines... so is a 10% ethanol blend bad for our cars.. cause if it is im effed cause every gas station here has the blend

For those of us who are 100% stock, does it matter if we run 91 or 93? Some gas stations here have 93, some have 91. Should I be making a point to go to the ones with 93 or will 91 do? Thanks

ive been running 93 octane since my first tank of gas and im completely stock

[grasshopper]

E10 is safe for all cars.

93 is better if you lay on it a lot. Normal driving will see no difference, but when you charge it up the extra octane allows slightly more aggressive tuning to be used, giving you a couple extra ponies.

If I remember correctly, VW recommends 95 RON which is equivalent to 93 (MON+RON/2)

[MC.R]

E10 is safe for all cars.

93 is better if you lay on it a lot. Normal driving will see no difference, but when you charge it up the extra octane allows slightly more aggressive tuning to be used, giving you a couple extra ponies.

If I remember correctly, VW recommends 95 RON which is equivalent to 93 (MON+RON/2)

ok good to know.. thanks

[Teknophreak]

Why? Unless you are specifically chipped to run 110 octane and have a monster turbo or something to increase compression, you're not going to see a power gain. In fact, 110 octane contains slightly less energy than 93 octane, so you will be getting less power (though probably not noticably).

The only thing 110 will do is allow you to run more aggresive timings and higher compression without the fear of knock.

X2 Using more than 93-94 octane is just wasting your money. Higher octane only means the gas resists pre-detonation, allowing higher compression ratios.

If you think $4 adds up to much ($16 a month if you drive a lot), you definitely need to get a cheaper car.

[2zzge]

our cars CAN NOT run on E85.
DO NOT put E85 fuel in your tank, IT DOES NOT MIX WITH REGULAR GASOLINE.

cars that DON'T use corn as fuel,(like our cars) it is only safe to use fuels that have alcohol in them at ratios of 25% or less as per the auto industry...(i'd go with 20% or less to be safe)

most states including california have limits of minimum = 5% and maximum = 15% alcohol in "normal" gasoline.

(i haven't finished my coffee yet, does all that make sense so far?)

alcohol is a liquid abrasive.
mixing different types of fuels (i didn't say different octanes) isn't recommended. they do weigh differently and don't often mix. (refineries use emulsifiers to mix gas and alcohol. so you'd have to use an emulsifier AND a lubricant.)

so if you mixed it as you are suggesting, the heavier of the fuels in your tank would sink to the bottom. making a large portion of your tank straight E85.

flex cars are not affected by the abrasive alcohol and can run on higher or lower octane fuels....regular gas or alcohol...mixed or not.

we don't have a flex-car.

[bcze1]

E10 is safe for all cars.

93 is better if you lay on it a lot. Normal driving will see no difference, but when you charge it up the extra octane allows slightly more aggressive tuning to be used, giving you a couple extra ponies.

If I remember correctly, VW recommends 95 RON which is equivalent to 93 (MON+RON/2)

The 10% is absolutely safe, in fact its mandated in most urban areas.

Top Gear did a test, the difference between 91 and 93 (UK equivalent) was 2 hp on a stock 2.0T. More power yes, enough to notice no. Performance software obviously is a different story.

What VW recommends in Europe is irrelevant to us. 2.0T's in the USA are tuned to 91 octane.

[mose6161]

10% ethanol gas, according to someone who owns a gas station, is bad.

when you have a tank underground of 93 octane gasoline, it surely isn't all gasoline. there is also water.

fortunately the water sinks to the bottom, and the gas floats to the top, due to scientific differences.

when you begin adding 10% ethanol, you create hell. the gas and the water no longer separate. ethanol allows for more water to move through the pump and into the cars of unsuspecting people.

[MC.R]

10% ethanol gas, according to someone who owns a gas station, is bad.

when you have a tank underground of 93 octane gasoline, it surely isn't all gasoline. there is also water.

fortunately the water sinks to the bottom, and the gas floats to the top, due to scientific differences.

when you begin adding 10% ethanol, you create hell. the gas and the water no longer separate. ethanol allows for more water to move through the pump and into the cars of unsuspecting people.

son of a bitch!!!!!!

every gas station ive ever been to in CT has 10% ethanol blend now, at least every one that ive seen

[bcze1]

son of a bitch!!!!!!

every gas station ive ever been to in CT has 10% ethanol blend now, at least every one that ive seen

even if that's true, there's not much you can do about it. The 10% blend is due to EPA air quality controls. In some areas they have 10% all the time, here in Denver we only have it during the winter months when smog is worst. Either way its not a brand to brand thing, its mandated by the govt.

[MC.R]

even if that's true, there's not much you can do about it. The 10% blend is due to EPA air quality controls. In some areas they have 10% all the time, here in Denver we only have it during the winter months when smog is worst. Either way its not a brand to brand thing, its mandated by the govt.

ugh sucks... yea ill pay more attention again but usually when im standing there pumping my gas i notice that "this fuel may contain up to 10% ethanol blend blah blah blah" stickers

[Minimaul]

be glad you can readily buy 93 oct. the most we can find easily is 91 here in CA


Bah. 90oct is the highest in Alaska. :(

[mose6161]

i am lucky when i am home because we have 4 gas stations in town, and 1 is owned by a vermonter, so he checks and removes water from his tanks.

when i am in NY however i have to drive 30 miles before i trust a gas station.

[icetraxx]

Our fuel system is ethanol resistant.

This was just an idea... Even so, I'm not going to do it. I can afford the extra $4 per tank.

[angrybaker]

jesus, quit crying about 10% ethanol in gas, its been there for a while and you never noticed. And you cant do much about it anyways. Get a prius if this concerns you so much.

[MC.R]

jesus, quit crying about 10% ethanol in gas, its been there for a while and you never noticed. And you cant do much about it anyways. Get a prius if this concerns you so much.

i did notice it a long time ago i just never cared cause i didnt have a nicer car... you wouldn't catch me dead in a pirus... my friends parents have two of them.. omfg i refuse to go anywhere's near them

[bcze1]

jesus, quit crying about 10% ethanol in gas, its been there for a while and you never noticed. And you cant do much about it anyways. Get a prius if this concerns you so much.

I agree its nothing to worry about...but how would driving a prius solve it?

[PHenk]

our cars CAN NOT run on E85.
DO NOT put E85 fuel in your tank, IT DOES NOT MIX WITH REGULAR GASOLINE.

cars that DON'T use corn as fuel,(like our cars) it is only safe to use fuels that have alcohol in them at ratios of 25% or less as per the auto industry...(i'd go with 20% or less to be safe)

most states including california have limits of minimum = 5% and maximum = 15% alcohol in "normal" gasoline.

(i haven't finished my coffee yet, does all that make sense so far?)

alcohol is a liquid abrasive.
mixing different types of fuels (i didn't say different octanes) isn't recommended. they do weigh differently and don't often mix. (refineries use emulsifiers to mix gas and alcohol. so you'd have to use an emulsifier AND a lubricant.)

so if you mixed it as you are suggesting, the heavier of the fuels in your tank would sink to the bottom. making a large portion of your tank straight E85.

flex cars are not affected by the abrasive alcohol and can run on higher or lower octane fuels....regular gas or alcohol...mixed or not.

we don't have a flex-car.

Seeing that the Original Poster is in Michigan, and giving the condition of our roads here................................ I think the two fuels would mix nicely!! :happyanim:

[MC.R]

I agree its nothing to worry about...but how would driving a prius solve it?

driving a prius would make me want to drive it straight off a cliff....

mom drove a prius once cause her coworker had one and they were going to lunch and my mom asked if she could drive to see what it was like
she came home and told me it was the most boring experience of her entire life and she actually had to go out for a drive in her audi to recooperate... she said she'd rather sit at the DMV for hours than drive a prius anywhere's lol

[2zzge]

Seeing that the Original Poster is in Michigan, and giving the condition of our roads here................................ I think the two fuels would mix nicely!! :happyanim:

BLAH! hahahahahahahahahaha.......ah--HA! :laugh:

[tongefactor40]

I have always heard that you are not supposed to mix octanes... on any car

[cevMkV]

that does not work. the two gasses are not of the same viscosity. they will not blend to make your ghetto-gas, it will probably instead make your car run like shit.

now i don't know much about this so i'll stop here.

i would kill to have 110 octane gas available. it would be my sunday treat.

not true...i have a friend in the petroleum industry and she said the following...

this is for regular gas not E85...I do not think the following will work with E85.

on the east coast all the gas that we use comes from the same pipe from a refinery in the gulf region. they only send 2 types 93 and 87. so here (in MD) where you can buy 91 or 89 octane gas it is simply mixture of the 93 and 87. remember the ratings are listed as a "minimum" rating. the gas is actually mixed at the time they are filling the underground takes at the stations.

this also brings up the question about brand...if they are all running the same gas why are they different? and who is better? the difference comes from the additives each company adds to the gas. when i asked her who she thought was the best she said Shell and BP hands down are the best.

[MC.R]

not true...i have a friend in the petroleum industry and she said the following...

this is for regular gas not E85...I do not think the following will work with E85.

on the east coast all the gas that we use comes from the same pipe from a refinery in the gulf region. they only send 2 types 93 and 87. so here where you can buy 91 or 89 octane gas it is simply mixture of the 93 and 87. remember the ratings are listed as a "minimum" rating. the gas is actually mixed at the time they are filling the underground takes at the stations.

this also brings up the question about brand...if they are all running the same gas why are they different? and who is better? the difference comes from the additives each company adds to the gas. when i asked her who she thought was the best she said Shell and BP hands down are the best.

woo hoo so glad i use shell/bp as much as i can

[mose6161]

not true...i have a friend in the petroleum industry and she said the following...

this is for regular gas not E85...I do not think the following will work with E85.

on the east coast all the gas that we use comes from the same pipe from a refinery in the gulf region. they only send 2 types 93 and 87. so here (in MD) where you can buy 91 or 89 octane gas it is simply mixture of the 93 and 87. remember the ratings are listed as a "minimum" rating. the gas is actually mixed at the time they are filling the underground takes at the stations.

this also brings up the question about brand...if they are all running the same gas why are they different? and who is better? the difference comes from the additives each company adds to the gas. when i asked her who she thought was the best she said Shell and BP hands down are the best.

i think the moral of your story is that no one should buy 89 octane gasoline.

[MC.R]

i think the moral of your story is that no one should buy 89 octane gasoline.

LOL!!!!!!! yea i'd have to say the same thing i guess

some gas stations, ive only run into a few here sometimes only have 87 or 93... no 89

[HoldDaMayo]

not true...i have a friend in the petroleum industry and she said the following...

this is for regular gas not E85...I do not think the following will work with E85.

on the east coast all the gas that we use comes from the same pipe from a refinery in the gulf region. they only send 2 types 93 and 87. so here (in MD) where you can buy 91 or 89 octane gas it is simply mixture of the 93 and 87. remember the ratings are listed as a "minimum" rating. the gas is actually mixed at the time they are filling the underground takes at the stations.

this also brings up the question about brand...if they are all running the same gas why are they different? and who is better? the difference comes from the additives each company adds to the gas. when i asked her who she thought was the best she said Shell and BP hands down are the best.

Interesting and good to know. I fill up my company car lousy taurus with Chevron alot... but I've always used Shell gas in my GTI... I really don't know why, i just trusted it more.

[cevMkV]

Interesting and good to know. I fill up my company car lousy taurus with Chevron alot... but I've always used Shell gas in my GTI... I really don't know why, i just trusted it more.

yeah same here i typically only use shell. not even sure why, i almost think my car performs better with it. maybe it is all psychological.

[bcze1]

i think the moral of your story is that no one should buy 89 octane gasoline.

No the moral of the story is it makes NO difference. Gasoline is a distillate of crude oil, regardless of octane, it the same chemical composition and mixes just fine.

And the only difference in gasoline brands, Shell or BP, etc is the detergents in it. The gasoline which makes up about 99.8% of what you're pumping into your car is exactly the same.

[cevMkV]

No the moral of the story is it makes NO difference. Gasoline is a distillate of crude oil, regardless of octane, it the same chemical composition and mixes just fine.

And the only difference in gasoline brands, Shell or BP, etc is the detergents in it. The gasoline which makes up about 99.8% of what you're pumping into your car is exactly the same.

very true but there are better detergents than others. which is why my friend who works in the industry recommends shell or BP. They have the best detergents, they keep your fuel system the cleanest. thus better performing.

[bcze1]

very true but there are better detergents than others. which is why my friend who works in the industry recommends shell or BP. They have the best detergents, they keep your fuel system the cleanest. thus better performing.


Maybe, my friend whos really just a grunt at a local refinery said the detergents are pretty much the same. Its just that some brands put in more of them. I doubt we'll ever know the real truth.

[xminusx]

Anyone like Chevron? the closest Shell in 15 miles from me and the owner is a douche..

[julito04]

Anyone like Chevron? the closest Shell in 15 miles from me and the owner is a douche..

the owner is a douche? does he refuse to give you gas or something or is he literally a giant douche that stands in the store spewing liquid all over you?

[cevMkV]

the owner is a douche? does he refuse to give you gas or something or is he literally a giant douche that stands in the store spewing liquid all over you?

:barf:

[cevMkV]

Maybe, my friend whos really just a grunt at a local refinery said the detergents are pretty much the same. Its just that some brands put in more of them. I doubt we'll ever know the real truth.

well he is probably right if he works there....oh well...lets all face the fact...we pay way too much for gas and it is going to keep getting worse. so we might as well suck it up and use that gas that is recommended regardless of brand.

93 FTW!

[MC.R]

well he is probably right if he works there....oh well...lets all face the fact...we pay way too much for gas and it is going to keep getting worse. so we might as well suck it up and use that gas that is recommended regardless of brand.

93 FTW!

x2.... but i still use shell when available

[Wild Hare]

Wow, and I thought I thought too much. We have a few Union 76's around here that have Trick Racing gas at their pumps.
I'm afraid to look at the per gallon price now a days.:eyebulge:

[marzlam791]

the owner is a douche? does he refuse to give you gas or something or is he literally a giant douche that stands in the store spewing liquid all over you?


lmao.....damn

[GTI lover all over again]

i've actually heard this before somewhere's else, wouldn't doubt it either with really old gas stations, people did a lot of whack things to cut corners back in the day.. and still kind of do now unfortunately

Refineries normally only produce two grades of gas, 87, and 91, at least in canada, e85, is blended from the original two with ethanol.......special blend like chevron 94 is just that, special!

[angrybaker]

gas? who uses gas? Plutonium!

http://www.star-sparkle.net/bttf/tn_August2004%20044.jpg

[dpham00]

For those of us who are 100% stock, does it matter if we run 91 or 93? Some gas stations here have 93, some have 91. Should I be making a point to go to the ones with 93 or will 91 do? Thanks

the gains of 93 over 91 would be marginal. but if the cost is about the same, then i'd go for it.